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  post #21  
Old 11-20-2005, 03:03 AM
Geoff Call's Avatar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shartley
...
And there are more than a few who believe that “drafting” works best on paper and on internet forums but does not hold true in real world situations. It is easy to make assumptions and theories that sound good but hold no water…. And even easier to get folks on internet forums to believe it.
I don't know about them flying straighter because of it, but drafting deffinitely happens. I've seen balls move so fast out of a marker that the last ball in line goes through and explodes the one before it. Rather amazing to watch...

Does sound good on paper though if it were true, then I'd hope your first ball in the string was dead on!

-Geoff Call
"You can't program accuracy!"

My mag is heavier than your mag.
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  post #22  
Old 11-20-2005, 07:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Geoff Call
I don't know about them flying straighter because of it, but drafting deffinitely happens. I've seen balls move so fast out of a marker that the last ball in line goes through and explodes the one before it. Rather amazing to watch...

Does sound good on paper though if it were true, then I'd hope your first ball in the string was dead on!

-Geoff Call
"You can't program accuracy!"
Hate to do this (really not, but you know…. ), don’t assume the reason the last ball hit one before it was because of drafting. It very well could have been (and more likely) a difference in velocity. If it was drafting we would see it happen all the time with standard firearms, and we simply do not. But we all know that paintball markers have drops and spikes in velocity, that is why we crono the way we do.

As for a string all hitting the same spot… why would you want that anyways? The idea of a string is to cover an area rapidly. If all the balls hit the same spot you might as well have just shot ONE ball, or even just a few. I see folks like to put a lot of paint on things, and honestly is has little to do with accuracy but all to do with them liking to see lots of balls fly through the air and putting a lot of paint on “things” (I say “thinks” because most of the time it is on bunkers or trees, NOT a person).

When shooting a lot of paint, having your balls have a larger (yet predictable) spread is actually BETTER than if they always went in the same 4 inch circle. The military found that out when developing machine guns. While single shot accuracy is ideal, when using automatic fire you want a predictable spread, and if you don’t have that your weapon becomes less effective, not MORE.

Just some things to think about.

WWAD / POG #934 / CPPA #2157 / LPPC #1

Last edited by shartley; 11-20-2005 at 07:39 AM. Reason: Added content...
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  post #23  
Old 11-20-2005, 07:50 AM
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I will also add that accuracy from a bench test seldom translates to real world situations. In a bench test the ideal situation is created. But in actual playing, you are moving. You are firing. Your marker is not in a vice. Even your breathing can throw a shot off. Not to mention wind, paint in the barrel, and oh so many other factors we see regularly on the paintball field.

So when I see folks act like a “more accurate” marker was the key to their marking someone out, and they went though huge amounts of paint doing so, I just laugh. People will see what they want to see, not necessarily what is true. And a good many eliminations are caused by pure luck, even when a single shot is made. But when you increase the number of shots, you also increase the amount of luck.

This is not saying you can’t actually train to be good, and that your marker can’t be accurate. But it is only to a point. And paintball manufacturers count on folks not realizing that, and in fact preach against it. The gap between the worst marker on the market and the best are not as far apart as manufacturers ( and even players ) would like to believe (or make others believe) they are. That is why we still have players holding their own, and even excelling using pgps, Spyders, Strokers, Tippmanns, etc.

WWAD / POG #934 / CPPA #2157 / LPPC #1
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  post #24  
Old 11-20-2005, 09:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shartley
I will also add that accuracy from a bench test seldom translates to real world situations. In a bench test the ideal situation is created. But in actual playing, you are moving. You are firing. Your marker is not in a vice. Even your breathing can throw a shot off. Not to mention wind, paint in the barrel, and oh so many other factors we see regularly on the paintball field.

So when I see folks act like a “more accurate” marker was the key to their marking someone out, and they went though huge amounts of paint doing so, I just laugh. People will see what they want to see, not necessarily what is true. And a good many eliminations are caused by pure luck, even when a single shot is made. But when you increase the number of shots, you also increase the amount of luck.

This is not saying you can’t actually train to be good, and that your marker can’t be accurate. But it is only to a point. And paintball manufacturers count on folks not realizing that, and in fact preach against it. The gap between the worst marker on the market and the best are not as far apart as manufacturers ( and even players ) would like to believe (or make others believe) they are. That is why we still have players holding their own, and even excelling using pgps, Spyders, Strokers, Tippmanns, etc.

I completely agree with you.

I wasn't trying to say that the shots will be straighter or anything like that because you're completely correct, on the field there is no "ideal condition." If anything you'll get a "lucky condition" and base your paintball adventure story around it. Skill and paint quantity increase those "lucky conditions" but quantity doesn't need skill and skill doesn't need quantity.

I am taking this line out because I didn't read the post before your last one and realized you were right about something I didn't quite consider all the way.

Edit again because the fact I refer to in the previous line changed my perspective and I completely agree with shartley that the drafting effect more than likely doesn't take place.

This thread might have gone the wrong way fun talking though!

-Geoff Call

My mag is heavier than your mag.
My other mag is lighter than your anything!

I work in the PBJunkie sweatshop. I'm on the machine that sews awesome together to make graphics.

Last edited by Geoff Call; 11-20-2005 at 09:19 PM.
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  post #25  
Old 11-21-2005, 05:55 AM
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Bah, no worries. It is all good.

WWAD / POG #934 / CPPA #2157 / LPPC #1
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  post #26  
Old 11-21-2005, 07:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shartley
Bah, no worries. It is all good.
"Who are you that is so wise in the ways of science?!?"

hehe

Back to topic. Mags are nice

My mag is heavier than your mag.
My other mag is lighter than your anything!

I work in the PBJunkie sweatshop. I'm on the machine that sews awesome together to make graphics.
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  post #27  
Old 11-28-2005, 12:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PBjunkie
You should really look at getting a sniper... It will allow you to get your finances in order and also allow you to play at the same time.
I gotta agree with Rich. Nothing cuts the paintball costs like playing with a pump. I've switched over to a Sniper pretty much exclusively for Rec Ball and I do just fine. I typically play all day on less than 500 balls - usually MUCH less.

Michael Curtis
Ref of the Old Code
NAPRA #256


And on the pedestal these words appear:

"My name is Ozymandias, king of kings:
Look on my works, ye mighty, and despair!"
Nothing beside remains: round the decay
Of that colossal wreck, boundless and bare,
The lone and level sands stretch far away
.



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  post #28  
Old 11-28-2005, 09:52 PM
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I have a mag on the way right now so I guess I'm gonna give it a try.

It's a Powerfeed Right (I'll get a ULE body if I like it), X-Valve, ULT, Level 10, and Intelliframe.

I'll post how it goes once it gets here.
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  post #29  
Old 11-30-2005, 12:39 AM
Geoff Call's Avatar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rembrandt
I have a mag on the way right now so I guess I'm gonna give it a try.

It's a Powerfeed Right (I'll get a ULE body if I like it), X-Valve, ULT, Level 10, and Intelliframe.

I'll post how it goes once it gets here.
Good choice on the powerfeed. Old school! Pretty much what I'm running now.
If you are interested in any nice twist lock barrels to go with it let me know cause I have a few extras for sale.

My mag is heavier than your mag.
My other mag is lighter than your anything!

I work in the PBJunkie sweatshop. I'm on the machine that sews awesome together to make graphics.
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  post #30  
Old 11-30-2005, 06:21 PM
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I've got a Boomstick and a Big Shot coming with it. I think that should tide me over until I get a ULE body. Thanks for the offer though.
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