Overshooting in Scenario/Woodsball Paintball
Posted 07-28-2008 at 02:55 PM by Mothman
" Hey you 
watch how to shoot that , you 
bunny!"Have you seen it happen? Some full grown man storms off in a rage because he was overshot on the paintball field. The scenario varies too, doesn't it? Some point and yell, others charge the assaulter, while others throw their hands up in protest. SO overshooting broken down involves three different types of specimens: The Obvious Overshooter, The Opps guy, and The Complainer. It also involves circumstances.
Circumstances
Sometimes the paint really hurts, it will catch you on the back of the head, on your sides, your wrist, hands, neck, just pick a place. It's sorta like in "Fight Club" where Brad Pitt ask Edward Norton to hit him, and when he does, Brad complains about where he landed his punch. We are all asking for it once we step onto the field. We all expect to dish it out in kind too. So when is enough enough? When is it time to pull the overshooting card? If you go by the rules of paintball, all it takes is one good quarter sized mark to get a player eliminated. One shot, and your gone. But lots of things happen on the field, like bounces, spray, an unrecognized hit, fog of war, unclear actions of the opposing player, etc. So a player may need to shoot a person a few times in order to be sure of his kill. More noble actions include yelling to the player " I got you out, your hopper, your hopper!" If your the receiving end you should be raising your marker high in the air ASAP and getting out of dodge. If not, then you are asking for it, which brings me to....
The Complainer
"It was intentional!" "He did that on purpose!" "There was no reason for it!" Lots of these quotes come out of a complainers mouth when overshot. Everyone eventually reaches this point in paintball. So it's up to us on a individual level to decide, when its too much, and when we are just being a complainer. To not realize your in a game that ask lots of people to be shooting at you is hypocritical. People with good heads on their shoulders realize before they play "being overshot and bonus balled will happen". But some players seem to want to fight about it, or come close. I've seen lots of throwing of markers, storming to and fro. Walking off the field in protest, and leaving the game, and it is hard to say what the right course of action to take is. The best approach is to try and have a balanced attitude. Realize most people are trying to play the same game you are. The worst thing to do is think that they are fully in the wrong and your fully right.
The Obvious Overshooter
All kinds play woodsball and Scenario Paintball. Some teams come to a scenario game to work on team work, or to let some steam off. The intent on playing these type of paintball varies from player to player, team to team, so the game can be trampled on by players who bring there own version of their A game and it may not match other players or even the producers. An overshooter doesn't think you mind much being overshot by him. He thinks your in his lane of fire, and its your job to get out of it, even as his lane follows you off the field. These are adrenaline junkies, and they could be in a fog of war but most think of themselves as lawn mowers, crushing everything in their path. This takes away from the fun for less competitive games like woodsball and scenario paintball. The goal in those games is to have fun and try your best. Most observed games like these have rules so that people will have a good time and not be taken advantage of. The lawn mower attitude is insensitive to others well being. People have stood up to this type of abuse like Mike of Techpb.com who suggest dumbing down your game if you have been under matched. Use a slower marker, play with restrictions, even up the game. Stand up players shouldn’t condone overshooting from their own teammates and adversaries.
Opps!
Ever been yelled at and you didn't know the havoc you was causing on the other side? It happens. Mistakes happen. Sometimes you can't see a raised marker, or hear a "I'm out!". People make mistakes all the time, that's why friendly fire happens in paintball. I've been in several fire fights where I was being yelled at for something I wasn't aware of. It's easy to contribute to the chaos esp when your one of twenty barrels pointing at one player. The best thing to do is try to be ultra aware of what's going on. Calm yourself down if your out of control. And always try to give the benefit of the doubt when someone is yelling at you, they may just have a case, hear them out.
One last personal thought of mine is that in big scenario games I think a few ref's should carry shields. I've seen them before being used, but they should be more for getting players out of sticky situations and not for the refs comfort. Just my humble opinion.
Charles "Mothman" Cole
www.thescenarioplayer.com
Total Comments 11
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I agree with you, but I think the #1 thing they should do is for a team or a player that is a speedballer who is in a scenario is to have them use a rental marker or something with a response and not an electronic trigger. I have had such an occurance I have played for many years on the west coast (california, mexico, arizona, nevada, etc.). On my first visit to a East Coast field was I in for an awaking, I admit I have been overshot before quite a few times each with there own circumstances. However this day infact does not come close to anyother times I have been overshot, I was playing at a fairly large, well-known field for a large game. In the first day of play I was exploring the field, then got a call on my radio that I was orded with a team of guys to hold a hill from oncoming enemy forces, we had a hard time fightins as they were coming down a trail that only TANKS were supposed to use, we drove them off eventually, we had two medics with us so unless you had a head shot you were fine. As I was defending this "Hill" we became overrun by a team of about 25 speedballers, I got hit yelled for a medic retreated back a little, got hit this time in the face, I called for a medic and a ref came and said it was illegal paint and I was still in play I retreated back to my medic where he cleaned my face, now we are just off the hill making a slow retreat back, I go to cover my medic and two teammates when I get shot. I put my gun up and my hand up to signal I am shot I turn to walk back to my medic as I am shot several more times, my medic heals me yet again I turn and see the whole speedballer team up in the hill all behind bunkers, me with nothing I put my hand up as well as my gun and say I surr right as I got there the whole team opened up on me with no care in the world they are reloading and still shooting, I am calling for a ref and nothing there is are 2 refs near them and one near me and they are till shooting getting tired of getting hit, and the adredaline pulsing through me I start shooting back whilst walking toward them, finally oce they had used all there pods from shooting me they begin to start cursing at me saying "why didnt I call my self out, why didnt I stop shooting, why did I just stand there, etc" all the while getting very nasty as this was not an 18 or older game I didnt want to curse, but I did and the ref paid attention to what I was saying but not them, He (the ref) said I was out and that I was to have a talk with he field owner, he (the ref again) escorted me out ofthe field, I walked out drenched in paint, I do not belive that there was no where on my body not touched with paint, we got back to the proshop and player are asking me where I got all the paint from, who over shot me etc. the ref talks to the field owner as I can barely stand now as the adrendline goes away the pain comes, I barely make it back to my camp site to crash.
when the field owner coes storming in cursing at me for cursing at the players on the hill, he doesnt take into account that I cant look at him(even if I tried I couldnt) nor that I am covered in paint with my mask still on, he goes on and on saying that if I dont like the rules here then I can leave, he then says if I want to stay I that I a kicked out for 2hours. I stay for the fact that I can not move, it was 4hours before I could get up to do anything. I did not play for the rest of the day or night, and played only the final battle the fllowing day. now about me I am a big guy 6'6 350lbs I can take a hit, but what these players did to me should not have been allowed nor could or would I want to imagine what could've happend if there was a 12year old in my spot. I now hold a grudge against the field and the players, not only for letting players do that, but for yelling at the wrong person, I realize I shouldnt have shot back, but as you say some people have the "fog of war" I was hoping that a hit would at least knock one of them to there senses. I do volunteer ref at a local field where I live, and I make it mandatory for all player either in scenario or woodsball to either use a rental marker or be held accountable for their actions. most use a rental marker, cause If I hear to many balls comig out im going to fnd the player and ask them to sit out a game or at the very least trade out for a rental marker... |
 
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I have played paintball for about 8 years now, and been over shot plenty of times.. Granted it sucks big time, and it does make me angry. But i feel players need to understand something. If your hit, call yourself out. Most of the time ive witnessed overshooting because people do not signal properly that they are tagged. On the other hand, I do agree that there are some people who get tunnle vision very bad and keep shooting. But in a game where you have specialty players like MEDICS who can heal you, if difficult to say whats overshooting and whats not, especially when some games pull numbers ranging from 800 players all the way up to 3000 or more! That alone creates a common problem of massive amounts of paint flying through the air!
Paintball is one of those games that some consider a sport, and vise-versa. But one thing that goes hand in hand with Paintball is sportsmanship. IT IS the SPORTING thing to know when your out of line, and apologize for accidents and mistakes, but some people just get too involved in the moment to realize whats REALLY happening. I however do not think that just because you are a SPEEDBALLER you should be required to use a rental marker or semi auto just because you play SPEEDBALL. I DO strongly believe that with the Rate of Fire markers are reaching these days, that fields and game producers need to strictly enforce ROF Caps, granted it would be difficult in large games to check everyones markers, but that would be the only way to help cut back on the amount of paint thats flying through the air. Another aspect that people dont realize is that because markers are capable of firing up to 30bps now a days, they forget that when someone is shooting at you and one ball hits you, theres most likely another 15-20 following closely behind that first one. Its not like we can magically stop those extra balls that are already singing towards their intended target. Trust me, ive been on the recieving end of getting hit, and immediately after calling myself out and raising my hand and marker in the air and clearly screaming that im out getting hit by another 4-12 balls or even more. And to say that you make it mandatory for ALL players to use a rental marker is in my opinion outragous. I personally just finished playing the SPPL NY Qualifier Event in Upstate NY, and faced off against the Smart Corps Factory Team, a team comprised mainly of D1 level tournament players. Now granted the rules state 15bps ROF, and there are strict hopper/marker combo restrictions, the head ref stated before the first games even started... "Overshooting will happen, by taking the field you understand that if you get hit, there will most likely be 14 more balls following right behind the one that hits you. Its just something that WILL happen." With that said, its again up to the REFS at the field to make sure they are PAYING ATTENTION to the action, and that is the only true way to stop and/or limit the amount of bonus balling that happens. As for ALL PLAYERS who walk onto a Paintball Field... When you sign that Insurance Waiver, you are stating that you fully understand and comprehend the full risks of the game, and are PLAYING AT YOUR OWN RISK! Yes bad things can happen, but if your willing to shoot at someone else, expect them to fully be willing to do the same to you. As for refs not making calls or dealing with issues of extream overshooting or bonus balling, thats a failure on their part to do one of the primary functions of their job: keeping the games safe and fun for everyone! And if the refs arent doing their jobs, those fields needs to take action and make sure their ref crews are properly trained and willing to do their jobs! Ive had and seen refs throw themselves in front of people to protect that player from being overshot, and most of them dont carry a shield of any kind. Now if a ref says "Players hit! Let him out, let him out" and the shooter doesnt stop shooting, then the ref needs to approach that player and take action. |
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I agree with you but I forgot to put something in, what I meant by having speedballers use rental markers at the field I volunteer ref at, is if we have new 1st time players, or people who could be intimidated by the way it looks and the rate it shoots, I give both players the option that if a speedballer really wants to play with this group, then they can still use there tactics, and shoot the amount of paint they want but only with a rental marker, or a response trigger. I wasnt pointing out them as a whole, I myself was once into speedball and I myself have gotten out of control "spray and pray", and even though I have had electro's in the past I know how paralyzing they can be to a new player. I have been playing for 14years and try my best to look after my players, the one thing I dont want to see with a new player is getting overshot, or being scared because a REF the one who looks out for the safety of the players let someone with more experiance or in some cases a Kid with an Electronic marker onto the field to join them without any restricions. This is why I ask the speedballers who come to the field to use a rental marker, or they can sit and wait for a group of more experiance players who want to play or someone who wants to play speedball. This is what I ask of all players is to respext the game and to put yourself in to the postion of a new player would you want to play against someone with more experiance, and a marker that can fire more than 2-3bps
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Indeed, I know what your saying. Which is another issue ive noticed in this sport, and thats trying to get more younger players to not only start playing, but continue playing throughout the future! And overshooting is definately one of those things that happens which keeps new players from continuing to play. And it is an Intimidation factor thats involved, I know Ive showed up to a field with a few friends, and we all rock SP Ion's with upgrades to the wall! And the younger less experienced players look at us in awe! But they do get scared to play, even if we are playing on their side for that game.
In closing, the more experienced players should be trying to help keep those new, younger, unexperienced players interested in the game, that I definately will agree with anyone on. And just an example of something ive witnessed alot at my local fields... If the refs know that theres alot of experienced older players like myself playing a walk-on game, they will either divide up the experience to even out the field, or severly stack players against us. But either way, the more experienced players should be helping those younger players out as much as possible! |
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Milk,
Your absolutey right. Those guys were in the wrong for shooting you up like that. they should have been sought out and given the penalties you was given as well. But I do have to add, you mentioned walking back to your medic. Now I'm not sure what the circumstances were at the field you was at, but most produced scenario games say you can't run or walk to your medic, they have to come to you. So, if you was breaking a rule and they saw you do it, it may have caused them to react the way they did. Which makes a further point. Players can't fly off the handle because they don't like what they are seeing, even if they see someone breaking the rules. If a paintballer has been playing for more than 2 years, he needs to be at a point where he knows to follow the rules to the letter, and never "jump off a bridge" as it were just because someone else does. It does no good to break the rules yourself just to prove a point. It's better to demand and trust the authority (ref's,field owners) on the field as it is established. If you cant trust the authority or cant reason with it, then you have no business being there and should ask for a refund and leave. Let me state something else. Scenario paintball is like none others. You can't go from speedball or backyard playing and just jump into scenario paintball without a briefing or alittle learning curve. All players need to read the rules and understand them about a game or field before they walk on. This is a must because certain games have new rules, and the field has rules that you must know to the letter. For a player To think they know what the rules are without a preview or orientation is a unwise choice. One last remark and that is, just because people play woodsball or scenario paintball doesnt mean they wont be aggressive on the field and shoot high rates of fire and move up on you. To the contrary, they should. Some woodsballers need to learn the application of force, movement, aggresive action and firepower. What truely sets scenario and woodsball apart from other sports is that it's soley up the individual as to how sportsmans like they play. It's up to them on keeping the rules, and making a safe game for eveyone envolved. There isnt a trophy waiting, no 1rst place, no sponsors watching, just the goal of being satisfied with yourself at the end of the day. So Milk, your right about being overshot, but remember, we all contribute to the game, make sure your half is golden. |
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ok, i read it all- please quit generalizing "speed ballers." What people fail to realize is that those probably are NOT real tournament players, they are just ass holes. I have never seen a real tourney player go crazy on some kid because most of us came from the woods and just want to have fun.
Ass holes are ass holes, call them what they are.  |
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Here it is for me...I do not get furious easily. However, I do get furious when overshot where there seems to be no good reason for it...(guy behind me, I did not call out fast enough, ...) If and when that happens I will not only call myself out, but I am coming for you too. When I catch up to you I will then proceed to explain to you that you overshot me and give you a chance to explain yourself. In this way I let you know what you did, and I get to know why it happened.
I will, however, never intentionally hurt another player because of overshooting. Overshooting (you are still pulling that trigger after you have seen the ball hit me and break) can be helped no matter what anyone says. |
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Great topic MOTHMAN,
I have been on the recieving end of some RATHER GENEROUS overshooting, bonus-balling, etc., in my 20+ years of paintball. I left the finals of the 1993 World Cup with close to twenty welts after being trapped in a center bunker, by "The Predators" Did I whine, no I was to busy trying to walk and not scream in agony! But this was/IS Professional tournament paintball. so it was no real surprise, (It DIDN'T make it hurt less though!!!)  Now recently they played a little game down in Wyandotte, OK. that they call D-Day. During the Tuesday "Mini" scenario game (600+ players  ) I was eliminated. (I hate it when that happens) I knew I was going to catch ALOT of bonus shot (there was about 50 of them left, myself and one other German, had taken out AT LEAST that many, and they were still coming!) I stood with BOTH HANDS and MY GUN w/ barrel condom , over my head, and was immediately hit a dozen times, I turned my back to the advancing Allies, and tried to get out of the area, while heading for the DZ. With every other step I was taking shots to my back. I was not advaning on the Allies, both hands were over my head, holding my marker, BUT I WAS STILL BEING SHOT! At one point I turned and an Allied player was twenty feet away and about to shoot. Still holding my marker over my head with BOTH hands, I screamed at the player, "If you shoot me again, they'll have to surgically remove that marker from your ass!" Even through his mask you could see the bewilderment  as to why he was being yelled at, but even as he stood there looking at me I was once again hit with a barrage of paintballs.  Now I don't know about the rest of you but it seems a little rediculous that players coming to the BIGGEST PAINTBALL GAME in the WORLD, don't understand the most basic of paintball rules! But I got over it quickly and even felt bad for losing my temper, and the rest of the week was FANTASTIC!!! So what's my point to all this.... Well I think there is a FOURTH category of overshooter. TOO STUPID TO KNOW BETTER, ya know they wear a helmet even when OFF the field! Just my $0.02 I now return the soap box to it's stored position.  |
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Updated 08-02-2008 at 10:23 PM by Silverback |
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Very good topic,
Let me add another topic. This one may be inter-related with the "too stupid" and the "asshole"...and that is the "tunnel visioned adrinaline junkie". You see how you can be a liitle stupid and somewhat a jerk, but combine that with those that only play in a couple of scenerios a year purely to 'punish' others and you have a loose cannon. I see a few at every scenerio, and the bigger the event that more of all of these three types it draws. That doesn't make gigantic games inheritly bad, it's just statistics. I just work my way to a mission on another part of the field if I see a repeat "mower" heading out. For this reason I find the most fun me and my sons have had in scenerio in our 4+ years in the sport are samller 12 or 16 hour games under 300 players. The focus then becomes tactics and missions instead of "field clearing" due to the player density...both mentally and field capacity-wise. thanks everyone for the great comments! |
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i would have to say im the OOPS guy. I play paintball. All of it, woods, scenario, and speed. I am a paintballer and were the paint is at there i am also. I shoot till i see a break and then stop shooting. i was at PBC at a MPP scenario and i saw this BIG dude and we 50/50. I am fairly good snap shooter, and he stood half his profile out of a stand-up bunker. i snapped out, pulled a volley. Then one hit i stopped. Big guy did not get out the way and all landed on him. The balls had about a 1/4 second flight, long enough to see that at first break, stop shooting and i did. Ill have you know i was almost kicked out because this guy didnt move and i had to prove to the ref that at that distance and the flight time that i wasnt overshooting and that his fat ass didnt move when he got hit.
Now here is a profound thought; if you get shot, GET OUT. Do not confuse the shooting player into shooting you more. Then call him unsportsman for overshooting you and potentially ruining his day and game. This is the other end of the spectrum of sportsmanship in paintball. GET OUT when you get shot and dont be a yipping ninney because you aloud to get yourself overshot by confusing your opposition of being in play. Also if you only get hit 3 or 4 times consider it lucky, cause most guns shoot 15 a second. Neural response time of the normal process is shooting to observing a break is 0.07 seconds, the time it takes to shoot one shot. now to observing break to stop shooting is about the same time. so that is a potential 2 to 3 shots for your neural response to process STOP SHOOTING. ITS PAINTBALL. you will get shot, now with this info WE ALL displayed we can REALLY pick out the overshooters and tell the whiners to suck it up. |
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well said, but i find it, it seems to take longer for someone who got shot to get out, that it would have originally have taken him to get into position while playing.. it seems when you get shot, they get into sudden slow motion!!WHY??? when you should promptly put your arm up or signal or scream out " I AM HIT, I AM OUT< or any of the sort.. I guess they still havent figured out, slow motion or playing possum will get you bonus balled.., just my 2 cents as an avid player of 20 years, with enough sense to play respectively and not overhsoot someone who has already called himself out..
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Recent Blog Entries by Mothman
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