cocker - vs - sniper2

[thumper]

so whats the difference?

If you really have to ask, you've never played a sniper 2 as a pump.

Dont hold the pump handle for a shot or two and you will see a the most peculiar behavior out around 120 ft - the ball goes a bit straighter than expected - and it stays on track until all momentum is lost. That's why most guys I know chop the fronts off cockers.

Grendel and I experimented pretty hard trying to get the same performance out of a cocker (or a HOLDUM sni2) with the JAM bolt. Personally, I found the results disappointing. [Gman may chime in - I think he is still experimenting.]

I say this after spending an hour* pulling the cocker front end off my '94 sleeper cocker and putting it on my '98 evolution sniper. My target range says "try this for a few events".

*(5 minutes in the conversion - 20 minutes re-timing and 35 minutes polishing the trigger plate and sear)

Anyone else out there battle with the difference?

[shooting psyko]

so if i were to transform a cocker in to a pump the pump will get better accuracy?
why is that if you have a diagram that would be great

[Chappy]

hmmm i belive my black magic is in the accuracy thu volume class :P

[Steers]

fascinating thumper, I can't wait to see an evo cocker with your handy work.

hmmmm....needs a name!

[Grendel]

As Thumper mentioned I'm not ready to make a sweeping statement on this. That being said there is something that happens when you do not hold the pump handle when firing a Sniper that causes velocity to be higher.

I've verified this rise in velocity many, many times and pretty much anyone who uses a Sniper regularly already knows this. I'll typically get 3-5fps higher readings at the chrono when not holding the pump vs holding the pump forward. I do not know what causes this but do have a theory:

My Theory
When you hold the pump forward all the air used to propel the paint ball is forced against the paintball causing is to be slightly deformed [pushed in] making the ball larger in diameter. This then causes more contact area and pressure to the inner surface of barrel and consequently more friction as the ball travels down the barrel until it relaxes. This increase in friction wastes some of the energy imparted to the ball causing a decrease in velocity as it departs barrel.

When you do not hold the pump forward and fire the gun some of the force of the air pushes the bolt and block back [recoil] decreasing the force being placed on ball decreasing how much the ball is deformed therefore decreasing contact area and pressure between the ball and the inner surface of the barrel and consequently less friction between the ball and barrel. This decrease in friction, in relationship to not holding the pump handle forward, causes an increase to the velocity of the ball leaving the barrel.

Given if this theory is true does the ball leaving the barrel of a sniper where you do not hold the pump forward not only leave the barrel slightly faster but also more round [less deformed]. If that is the case then the ball should fly a little further and be more stable in it's flight path. If this is true then could not you replicate this with and Autococker and a JAM bolt?

Now as everyone knows increased velocity is not necessarily increased accuracy but does allow the ball to travel further and a more round ball travels truer then a mishapened ball.

Now we theorized that if my theory was true for the Sniper then why wouldn't it work with an Autococker that uses of a JAM BOLT since it recoils a little when you fire. So far the theory does not work with a Autococker / JAM Bolt combination and I'm not sure why. Both Thumper and I use Venturi Bolts in our Snipers [Thumper - Belsales, Grendel - Free Flow] and the JAM Bolt is not a Venturi but just a big hole in the middle. Does this difference affect our outcome when we try to replicate this effect with an Autococker? I do not know. Thumper has donated to me a couple of JAM Bolts that I'm going to modify so they are venturies so we can do a comparison.

What I propose to do is modify a JAM Bolt take one Sniper/Cocker and collect velocity data [200 balls ea] and the following configurations ustilizing the same gun, barrel, paint, chrono, and all in the same session:

1) Sniper with venturi holding pump forward
2) Sniper with venturi not holding pump
3) Sniper with unmodified JAM bolt holding pump forward
4) Sniper with unmodified JAM bolt not holding pump
5) Sniper with modified JAM bolt holding pump forward
6) Sniper with modified JAM bolt not holding pump
7) Autococker with venturi
8) Autococker with unmodified Jam Bolt
9) Autococker with modified Jam Bolt

This should be enough data to come up with an emperical conclusion but not any proof of the theory to the reason why.

I do not feel a Sniper is inherently more accurate then an Autococker since all an Autococker is a Sniper with pneumatics to automate the cocking action. The difference is due to equipment used and shooter using the gun.

[gfgjester]

"Thinking to the scientists, this does say. The FORCE it is, say I. Yessss. Mmmm."

[Grendel]

Originally Posted by gfgjester

"Thinking to the scientists, this does say. The FORCE it is, say I. Yessss. Mmmm."

Do I sense a little sarcasam from you Jester?

[gfgjester]

Just a teeny bit!

Actually G, after building/customizing the Outkast Sniper last month, I saw you guys talking about not holding the pump handle when firing. When I first shot it, I found out why. Now I hold it by the reg. With the 15 degree vertical, it is quite comfortable. And I thank you, after the fact! Now I get to use it in the field for the first time and go shoot Japs with it...

[Grendel]

Welcome to the side of the "LIGHT" and you are welcome.

Really I personally like all forms of paintguns and am known to use a semi once or twice a year.

[Ears]

SPEEDBALL GUNS FTW
haha jk