Drop Zone limits recreational paintball play to gravity fed hoppers only

[Silverback]

Okay let me see if I'm understanding some of you....

ROF's are 15+bps; Guns that can fire at 15+bps are getting less expensive...

NEW and INEXPERIENCED players to the sport are getting shot up, overshot, bonus-balled by players with these 15+bps guns; Alot of these new and Inexperienced are getting upset and not playing anymore... Are we all in agreement so far?

I AM IN TOTAL AGREEMENT THAT THIS IS A SERIOUS PROBLEM. SO SERIOUS IN FACT, THAT IT COULD DESTROY THE SPORT UNDER THE WEIGHT OF LITIGATION AND GOVERNMENT INTERVENTION!!

Now some of you believe that only allowing gravity fed hoppers on ALL guns is the answer.

Are we still together here?

Having worked at many fields over the last twenty years I am going to propose a startling resolution.

SEPARATE NEW AND IN-EXPERIENCED PLAYERS, AND THOSE USING RENTAL EQUIPMENT FROM THE ONES WITH THE 15+bps MARKERS!!!!!

How can ANY RESPONSIBLE field owner allow experienced players with their own equipment (those damn 15+bps markers) shoot up the newbies!!!!?

GOOD LORD!! I thought we left "SQUID BASHING" fields/owners back in the early nineties!!!

Requiring experienced players to use a gravity-fed hopper, solves nothing. They can still shoot up the newbies like fish-in-a-barrel... COME ON!!

If you put a gravity-fed hopper on my Shocker NXT (It's got eyes), and I wanted to be a complete ASS, I could still blister any newbie with it.

I can also blister a newbie (if I want to be an ASS) with my SI Bushmaster Pump that has an autotrigger and a gravity-fed hopper. That's because I'm an experienced player who will go out on a speedball field with a pump gun to practice snap-shooting, and kick ass! And also get my ass kicked as well, but I know what to expect and place myself in that situation for the challenge, and practice.

DON'T TAKE EQUIPMENT AWAY FROM EXPERIENCED PLAYERS -
TAKE THE NEWBIES AWAY FROM THE EXPERIENCED PLAYERS!

If the field owner wants to TRULY be responsible they will separate players by skill / equipment level.

I'm not trying to piss anyone off, I've just seen too much "Newbie Bashing" over the years (long before 15+bps markers and battery powered hoppers).

IN MY OPINION this is the only SENSIBLE solution.

[Volcano]

SB, I agree with except how do you propose to seperate the newbies and the experience in a large scenerio game?....you can't
So what say you for a solution to this? as I got nothing here

[Silverback]

Originally Posted by Volcano

SB, I agree with except how do you propose to seperate the newbies and the experience in a large scenerio game?....you can't
So what say you for a solution to this? as I got nothing here

The news release stated RECREATIONAL PLAY, however, as stated earlier about MPP rules, the players are cautioned to use their technology wisely.

Also, it is my experience that MOST OF THE TIME (not always) new/in-experienced players attending a scenario game are going with people that ARE experienced and will work with the new player.

But shooting up NEW players, in my experience is not as big a problem as with recreational games at fields where new players are thrown into games with experienced players.

Again I am sure that there are exceptions to this in scenario play, IMO it is not the problem it is in regular recreational play.

[gfgjester]

Hmmm. I agree totally, SB (& others...). Separation is a much better solution. Ken adn Dropzone have been around for quite a while. I would have to think that the problem there must be extremely bad for them to make such a decree. Not a bad publicity move, either, under the "Any attention is good attention" rule. Separation being such an obvious answer, I'm wondering why they didn't consider it first. Hopefully, they'll come back to this forum to see the results of mature and experienced players discussing the problem in an intelligent manner, (STOP giggling! ), and reevaluate their decision. As this was put out as a press release, I would imagine it went to a lot of forums. I was scared to even LOOK on that NATIONwide forum for fear of blood on the keyboard...

[scpaintballer01]

Originally Posted by Silverback

Okay let me see if I'm understanding some of you....

ROF's are 15+bps; Guns that can fire at 15+bps are getting less expensive...

new cap is 13.3, everybody's slowing down.

SEPARATE NEW AND IN-EXPERIENCED PLAYERS, AND THOSE USING RENTAL EQUIPMENT FROM THE ONES WITH THE 15+bps MARKERS!!!!!

Then as somebody who has worked at fields, you would know that this always doesnt work. You'll still have the eventual slow day where you've got some players with "high end" guns and 2 rentals. you cant let them play 1v1 unless they want to.

How can ANY RESPONSIBLE field owner allow experienced players with their own equipment (those damn 15+bps markers)shoot up the newbies!!!!?

well, it goes back to the whole "i bought this equipment, paid for my entry and air and bought your paint and im the customer, so the customer is always right and im doin what ever the hell i want."

Requiring experienced players to use a gravity-fed hopper, solves nothing. They can still shoot up the newbies like fish-in-a-barrel... COME ON!!

If you put a gravity-fed hopper on my Shocker NXT (It's got eyes), and I wanted to be a complete ASS, I could still blister any newbie with it.

I can also blister a newbie (if I want to be an ASS) with my SI Bushmaster Pump that has an autotrigger and a gravity-fed hopper. That's because I'm an experienced player who will go out on a speedball field with a pump gun to practice snap-shooting, and kick ass! And also get my ass kicked as well, but I know what to expect and place myself in that situation for the challenge, and practice.

actually it's more of a psychological thing for the new player. they'd rather you shoot what they're shooting because in their mind it then becomes a 50/50 game.

I support this move because to me- it's making paintball more of a true sport, not a bi-monthly family outing. Seriously, if you're such a good player then why are you bitching about this change? If you had to play here you could still bring out your stuff at their scenarios, tournaments, and any practice days they have, but during rec ball you wont be able to. BallBusters has this same rule for all tournament players and staff- we MUST either use a pump or rental if we're going to play a game of recball and it's fine.

tl;dr- technical skill > technological

[gfgjester]

ANOTHER good point! This is getting to be a very interesting thread. At least the guys at DZ have more options to choose from. I do like the tourney/staff mandatory pump/rental rule.

[scpaintballer01]

Originally Posted by gfgjester

ANOTHER good point! This is getting to be a very interesting thread. At least the guys at DZ have more options to choose from. I do like the tourney/staff mandatory pump/rental rule.

it works really well because it evens the intimidation factor to almost nill (which is huge in this sport) and makes the players much more approachable because they see that we arnt just blasting away, usually this leads to them asking questions about what we're doing which leads to them becoming interested to come to a sunday practice to try drills and such = lifetime paintballer.

[thumper]

I've heard recently that 55% of all paintball players on earth right now have never played on a commercial field - they prefer instead to play outlaw ball / backyard ball.

I think any move that a field can do to tap into that 55% is a smart move.

Limiting ROF through hopper restrictions? sure - why not.

How about hopper ball? (i.e., no pods on the field)

Or veterans restricted to pump only?

One thing I didnt see mentioned is the rental marker that the walkons may recieve - typically the most maintainable marker : the venerable Tippmann 98... 4-5 bps on a great day. cap the field ROF at the rental rof.

[CamoJester]

Originally Posted by thumper

I've heard recently that 55% of all paintball players on earth right now have never played on a commercial field - they prefer instead to play outlaw ball / backyard ball.

I think any move that a field can do to tap into that 55% is a smart move.
Limiting ROF through hopper restrictions? sure - why not.

How about hopper ball? (i.e., no pods on the field)

Or veterans restricted to pump only?

One thing I didnt see mentioned is the rental marker that the walkons may recieve - typically the most maintainable marker : the venerable Tippmann 98... 4-5 bps on a great day. cap the field ROF at the rental rof.

I agree with what you say about reaching the 55%.

I dont mind hopper ball, but fields will never go for it. They want you to shoot more paint. Same with the ROF.

We ,people who have been playing for years or a decade, need to set the example to the new people.

Field mandated limits will help, but not stop it. We need to be the ones who make sure the new poeple have a good time & a SAFE time. With out new poeple to the sport/game/fields/stores we will not grow.

AHHH just my $.02

[thumper]

Originally Posted by CamoJester

...
We ,people who have been playing for years or a decade, need to set the example to the new people.

I agree - lead by example - Ive been preaching a long time to the regular ballers I know to gear back, not up.

Originally Posted by CamoJester

.. but fields will never go for it. They want you to shoot more paint.

short sighted fields perhaps - but let me throw a few tidbits your way:

At places where ROF seems an issue, lots of players shoot their wad and consequently cant afford to play often. Other groups do same. They show up to play, and there is no one to play w/ or against. As a result, they get bore with the field and dont return. enough groups do this and the word gets out the field closes.

I personally hate being the guy sitting on my duff at 12:00 on a saturday waiting on the players to show. Im not driving to a field "where some players may show up" or "Im sure it will pick up after church" or "there must be big football game going on or something".

On the otherhand, the hard core pump ballers seem to always be looking for a game - most of who have learned to conserve paint - so they can afford to come again the week after, and the week after that - etc. All that practice and fellowship leads to a pretty strong, fun-loving community. The fields that embrase this community will benefit by having lots of regulars hanging out looking for a game for those times when the groups turn up. More players = more fun, even if the amount of paint per player is measured in bags and not cases.

I heard Paintball Charleston is second only to Wevo nationally in the sales of Phantoms. And 300+ players on any given saturday is pretty common. I think there is some correlation.