GAS $4 a Gallon by Summer

[gfgjester]

Originally Posted by MrWizard

It's the oil speculators and futures traders getting fat off of us not the oil companies. Return on investment for oil companies is about 7 to 8 %. Contrast this with Credit card companies that have ROI of about 30-35%. Sure a profit of 30 billion dollars sounds huge but they had to spend half a trillion dollars to do it.

Here's where I become confused. Well, OK, I was confused before, but here's where I get RALLY RALLY confused..

EXXON/Mobil made 41 BILLION dollars profit in one quarter. If they had to spend whatever, if they still made 41 BILLION profit, who cares? I mean, did the definition of the word, profit, change? If we sell something in the shop here, say an Ion, for 200 beans and it cost us 150 plus 10 shipping, thats 40 profit. That's the cream rising to the top. What kind of voodoo is it that discounts 41 BILLION dollars profit?

You mentioned the Credit Card companies. Most of the financial world is governed and controlled by the... (surprise) ... the government. Interest rates, etc. The word is that we can't do this to the oil companies. WTF NOT?
I'm sorry, but I don't see any oil executives living in trailers or Section 8 apartments. Yeah, that's extreme, but these guys make more money than GOD. Why not put a ceiling on gas prices based on a certain profit potential? Why not, (get ready), USE OUR OWN OIL FROM OFF THE COASTS OF TEXAS AND LOUISIANA!?! Tell the damn Saudis to barf off. We have reserves out ther boofoo and it sits there. Our oil workers are laid off and idle.

This whole thing stinks of refined Reaganomics - "The rich get richer and the rich get even MORE richer. F* the middle class because they don't exist anymore. We shoved them into the lower class to eat Ramen noodles and potted meat sandwiches!"

NOW, there's MY rant! I'm sure someone will completely disagree and chop me up. BUT I DONT CARE IT FELT GOOD!

Love, Jester....

[REF]

Well i have 3 ideas. but 2 involve a greater united nation (modern revolt).

Lets start with something shocking- Where is oil, and how its made:
Oil is pretty much everywhere, and the greatest known and untaped area is North America.
"But we can't keep drilling and using oil, we'll run out of dinosaurs fossils that have been magically turned to our favorite fuel source!" Heres the big shock- Oils is not a "fossil fuel". The leading theory does mention ocean life that descends to greater pressure areas does play a part, but according to new veiws/research that shouldn't be able to create near the amount of oil we use even in a decade (if longer than a year).
The newest research points to the theory that the movement of plates along with high heat and pressure, moves oil closer to crust from its starting point thats much deeper than we believe or can imagine drilling to. The heat and pressure a theorized to not only move the oil, but turn the source into what we see as oil.
In the end, its people showing progress from grant money, and theories... But it sure as hell isn't dead dinosaurs in our cars.

As far as what we can do to lower the prices... I'll be happy to tell you my plan in person, but not type it here, and not over the cell.

To add to this, i suggest everyone look into the new research done on burning ocean water at 3,000 degrees... pretty interesting stuff.

Originally Posted by sarge

but the eternal question is "what can be done?"
we are all at thier mercy, we are a society that drives everywhere we go. both for work and play. we could effectivly damage the economy as a whole. but wait.... with what we are expected to pay for gas there is a deminishing amount of disposable incom to start...... this my friend is called a kanundrum

[docrock]

There are people making money all over from this. Supposedly the Saudis are screaming they're making the same money and the oil companies are claiming they're only making a few %. Supposedly the evil of the situation is the futures commodities markets.

People with money buying this crap up and dumping billions in doing it to jack up the price of a barrel and hurting us.

Time to shoot commodities brokers and then see what the gas prices do.

[socoj2]

EXXON/Mobil made 41 BILLION dollars profit in one quarter. If they had to spend whatever, if they still made 41 BILLION profit, who cares? I mean, did the definition of the word, profit, change? If we sell something in the shop here, say an Ion, for 200 beans and it cost us 150 plus 10 shipping, thats 40 profit. That's the cream rising to the top. What kind of voodoo is it that discounts 41 BILLION dollars profit?

Raw numbers do not tell the whole story. Yes 41 billion seems like an OMFG WTF number doesnt it?

When you look at the % profit of net revenue, this tells more of a story. Banks have the Highest numbers because they have the lowest overhead, they Rob Petter to steal from paul.

A % profit of net revenue that is awesome is about 12-15%, Outrageous is in the 20s like Citi and Bank OF America. Exxon is at less then 10% of its net revenue is profit. That means yes it made 41 billion on 410 Billion dollars of income.

Lets look further at your ION model. End Retailrs make a far larger dollar profit from end sales then do whole salers, which make the money in volume. You may sell 50 ions in a year for a total profit of $2,000. Where as smart parts who would most likely only make $5-$10 per marker will sell 30,000-40,000 Units.

You are also only looking at the gross Profit excluding expenses. When you buy gas at an Exxon station 19 times out 20 you are not purchasing gas from Exxon but from a reseller who purchases wholesale from Exxon exclusively. The end stations generally make about $.10 - $.15 per gallon of gas.

If you truly want to stick it to gas companies ONLY BUY your gas at Kroger or Costco. These companies do whole sale purchasing from who ever is selling the load at the cheapest cost at that time. They do not have locked in rates.

The National Association of Convenience stores *NACS* did a study in 1999 to determine how much of a threat non C store sales were to the current gas industry, they determined that over the next 15 years if the growth of warehouse sales continued it would be detrimental to the current market setup of all the C Stores. Encourage Everyone to buy gas from Costco or Kroger.

O BTW Exxon pays as much in income tax as the Bottom 50% of individuals which totals 65 million people. Which was 30 billion.

Granted Exxon also does a lot more the Gasoline, Natural gas oil, Petro Chem, Industrial Chem...

[loop]

They need to cut there proffit in half maybe it will lower the gas prices

[USArmyManOfWar]

But all this begs to ask a higher question, "Are we better off today than we were 7 years ago?"

[docrock]

You have to ask that question? I would think that would be a no-brainer.

[Milkshake]

I have shied away from this subject, having seen gas prices in Canada and England first hand.We have been fortunate to keep the gas price lower than most of the world, but we still pay too much. I do not like having to pay high prices for driving and all the other things in life are going up because of this also. We can only cut down on the amount we use personaly, trying to stick it to the oil companies will not work, not enough involvement by everyone and not a long enough time frame. You would have to get every car to not move for over 30 days to get them to notice.
The upstate area has lower gas prices than gfgjester does down in LA. How can that be? They have to haul it up here from there, but it is still cheaper. I understand different tax rates in different states, I lived in NC and worked in SC, so I bought all my gas in SC $.10 cheaper back then.
We have to try and reduce our own consumption to help ourselves, this is the only way we will help out. I liked it when I had my king cab Ram, but I got tired of feeding it so I got something better on gas. Same thing as us pumping all the time now because we can play all day cheaper. This principal applies to gas, tired of feeding the big monster? Get something smaller, take less to the events, carpool, get a bus or rent a van. There are so many options to us, lets use them. I love to complain as much as the next guy, but this is a losing argument, stop driving and the gas company will lower the price? Get realistic, THEY DO NOT CARE, period. Everyone in the world cut their usage in half for 2 years? They will have to do something. We are our own worst enemies, change our habits, that is the start.

[gfgjester]

Soco, exactly... I understand gross vs. net profit. It is curious to see the media go out of it's way to avoid using those terms. And Sp8nc, the seemingly ideal solution would be for all Americans to man up and change their usage habits. But this is America. "We don' need no steenking limits!" Conservationists and economists have always agreed on this singular point. That we need to consume less. As evidenced by the hysterical gas crisis of 74-75, and the ensuing resurgence of vehicles like the ESCALADE, "Nah gon happen. Wouldn't be prudent". I had a Volkswagen during that crap and I sat in lines waiting. With this gas crisis, they've gotten smarter and just jacked the price. No more lines. LOTS of buyers...

I'm still not seeing any answers fro the government as to why they don't get involved to stabilize everything. They do it in the banking and mortgage industry without hesitation. But don't mess with W's pals in the oil business. I"m sorry. It just looks too bogus to me. Everything is as convenient as it need to be to fit the questions asked. (Not by us here, but by politicos) This is a lot bigger and more populated nation than it used to be. People are more informed. Rising fuel costs makes everything priced higher. People are only going to stand for it so long. Then you can bet someone is going to be burned in effigy. And by burned in effigy I mean dragged out of their cushy federal offices and stomped REAL hard. 35 million raised in one week for political advertisements and they're bragging and proud. They should be hanging their head in shame. But then that's another story...

[porkchop]

Eventually, there will be a different fuel source. Oil is a limited supply. Right now I believe the oil companies are buying the patents to all the great ideas of different fuels and the ones to great mileage. They have the money to do it. The hybrid either slipped through, or they threw the consumer a bone to see how the market would react.
But the supply will dwindle, then some of these patents will come out that have been bought. You know what, the oil companies will still be on top, they have the patents to these "new" ideas. They are covering their butts, just like me or you would do.
Just my opinion. I've been wrong before, but every once in awhile, I'm right. Have to wait and see on this one.