First off, I wouldn't be writing about this if I hadn't seen it for myself.....

I've had this question on my mine for a while. I think this needs some setting up, just so everyone that reads this is on the same page. And I'm thinking more of woodsball rather than speedball, but I can see where it could apply to speedball some. The newbies & younger guys who are going back & forth between speedball & woodsball should especially read this.

In woodsball, there is a high percentage of players who are current & former military personnel. Even the guys who don't fall in to that catagory tend to be physically strong individuals. I don't know that I'd care to characterize the typical temperment of woodsball players, but I think it's safe to say that even among the female players, there's a high degree of the "Don't mess with me" attitude, which frankly, I share. Now don't get me wrong--I can be joked around with & I expect others to be the same way. I even have a standard statement I tell anyone who doesn't have a sense of humor. I tell them, " If you don't have a sense of humor, you're on the wrong planet".

My attitude in life, not just paintball, when it come to messing with somebody-- whether it's verbal or physical is real simple--Don't give me any crap & I won't give you any. I nether wish to tolerate being screwed with nor do I ever expect anyone else to tolerate me messing with them. Unlike the typical smartbutt you tend to meet every now & then, I personnaly have no problem going thru life without messing with anybody else. The common sense restrictions apply of course. For example, if I see someone abusing a child (& I mean abusing), well they might as well say hello, because I'm gonna introduce myself and I'll introduce the local law officers too. Now moving on ...

For virtually every big game, there's the ol' smack talk thread. When I read one such thread for the first time, I had idea if it was a joke or if somebody was soon to be carried of a paintball field in a body bag. I now know that most such smack talk is in good fun. The question is-- What's ok and what isn't?

Like it or not, there's a line. Yep it's invisible, but yet it's clearly there. Perhaps there's even more than 1 line. In smack threads, in seems to me that there's a line that shouldn't be crossed when it comes to joking around and being obviously mean. Of course, only the people involved may know the difference and that's fine. For example, Joe may tell Jack he's a poop eating homo, which may cause both to laugh while the rest of us are clueless.

Then there's what I consider to be a big no-no. Let's say player Joe walks into team Hornet's campground on Friday night and without so much as a grin, starts smack talking about how his crew, the Dipwads, are gonna kick the Hades out of the Hornets this weekend. Joe may or may not say more insulting things. At this point, IMO, Joe has crossed the line. Whether he gets it or not, Joe deserves his butt kicked, 1st by the Hornets and then by his team, the Dipwads (for being so stupid).

Now I know around the campfire on Friday night that good natured smack talk goes on. Everyone knows it & Everyone's cool about it. That's NOT what I'm talking about--that too is cool with me.

The thing is, with so many highly trained people around, no one needs to push the envelope, for safty's sake. Then you need to consider that for all the typical "mine's bigger than your's" guy talk, really everyone is there to just have fun (execpt Joe, who is trying to prove his manhood).

I say it's in the best interest of the paintball world for everyone to feel welcome & at home at paintball games. I say mean smack talk is a safety issue and makes people not feel welcome. Futhermore, bad attitudes could the the death of a perfectly good paintball field.

But what say you? What type of smack talk is cool & what isn't??

Carolina Riot
www.carolinariot.com

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"When you're in command, command!"-Vice Admiral William F. "Bull" Halsey Jr. (WWII)

Essentially in the past on an old forum and some here we would start a seperate "Smack Talk" thread. Whomever started the thread would post a disclaimer to this effect:

This is what has been done in the past and the "discussions" could get pretty intense. At times Mods would have to step in and ensure everyone remembers it is all done in jest and there have been time some editing was needed but in general they tend to be self moderating. As it says in the disclaimer if you can not take it or do not want to take it just stay out of the thread. It really does require a seperate thread and the disclaimer to work well. Lately we have not been doing this and maybe it is something we should be doing.

"Qui tacet consentit"


"Rather fail with honor than succeed by fraud."
-Sophocles

No if you are talking about Smack Talk at the field/in public. Unless you know the person/persons well and the people around them I would keep the Smack Talk under control and "G/PG" rated. The game is for fun and you need to contribute to the friendly enviroment.

"Qui tacet consentit"


"Rather fail with honor than succeed by fraud."
-Sophocles

My first fun here at pbjunkie was some smack for the first free finale game. When I got to the game I learned the "junkies" were 'alookin fer me'. When they finally caught up with me Junkie remarked he was expecting a much younger man (I guess that means smaller).

If you can't tell what is good natured Adult smack or find yourself being "moderated" in exchanges with people you would not share an adult beverage with, time to exit the smack ride and give away the rest of your tickets.

Interglacials are short and then we enter the nasty brutishness of the glacial periods.

http://www.blackhearts.net
http://smartcorps.smartparts.com
http://www.nexosports.com

Yeah I agree with you Grendel.

Just so there's no misunderstanding, I haven't seen anything, at least no lately and perhaps ever, that would go above & beyond what the disclaimer takes care of. While writing my original post it occurred to me that something like the following could happen, which is the reason I included on-line posts:

Using Joe & Jack again-- Joe & Jack know each other, but they play for different paintball teams that for whatever reason has a rilvery going on. Big game coming up, with Joe & Jack on opposing sides.

So the smack talk begins--Jack gets throws a good one on Joe, all in good fun. Now Joe has heard a rumor--perhaps a little more than a rumor--about Jack's sister. It seems the girl is lacking in moral character. In a moment of bad thinking or perhaps, just plain meaness, Joe posts the following:

Hey JacK,

"I gonna rape & pillage you so bad during this game, you're finally going to know what your slut sister feels like on a Friday night date".

If Jack reads it before the mods do, Joes getting hurt, along with anyone else that tries to get between them.

Now Joe can point to the disclaimer all he wants, but he's gonna get messed up all the same.

Carolina Riot
www.carolinariot.com

Proudly Sponsored by SC Army Surplus
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"When you're in command, command!"-Vice Admiral William F. "Bull" Halsey Jr. (WWII)

In your example there is nothing that could have been done about it. Even without a smack thread smack gets thrown around any way and there is no way to moderate immaturity.

There is no way to prevent your scenario from happening the best you can do is be upfront with what is acceptable behavior and try to enforce it but enforcement is essentially reactive. There is no way to prevent someone from saying something inappropriate all we can do is Moderate posts and place occasional reminders for people to stay on topic and in the spirit of the thread and the forum.

In the case of your scenario the offender's post would get deleted but both guys willing entered the SMACK THREAD and knew they were going to get attacked. If you can not take it do not go there, if it gets too strong for your stomach leave the thread and don't look back. I've seen one of these SMACK THREADS get pretty intense to the point I PMed some people to insure they were OK with the posts. In all cases they were.

In general I would recommend people not bringing "family" into these threads. I'm a pretty easy going and you can attack me, my friends and my team all you want and I'll just let it roll off the back but to bring my family into it you could set me on edge quite quickly. I'm sure I would back off the thread and PM the individual that they've gone too far and I'm sure most anyone here would back off and most likely apologize once they realize how you feel.

"Qui tacet consentit"


"Rather fail with honor than succeed by fraud."
-Sophocles

Grendel--Agreed. FYI-- I'm not looking for a way to stop immature smack talk. I am trying to see if most people here can agree on what's ok.

I'm especially looking for answers on the "going in to someone's camp & running your mouth" type of thing. That's what I've actually seen happen and I wasn't sure what most people think of such acts. It seemed overboard & "asking for it" to me, but I wasn't sure. I haven't went to that many big games anyway & thought that, just maybe, doing that stuff was acceptable.

I really don't know what to make of such behavior. Looking back, I don't know if someone was trying to bait someone or not. Going forward, I'd like to know what the PBJUNKIE group thinks, because I think it's fair to conclude that the whatever the majority opinion here is, that's probably going to be a good basis for how to handle that behavior.

Carolina Riot
www.carolinariot.com

Proudly Sponsored by SC Army Surplus
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"When you're in command, command!"-Vice Admiral William F. "Bull" Halsey Jr. (WWII)

my exerience.

smack talk is fun. im a smack talker. i most often will make fun of myself before i make fun of other players. for an example of extreme smack talk please refer to the AAA forum come time for the mclellan mout games. very entertaining. however, i always try and keep a jovial sense of humor and often take the edge off with something funny or stupid that i myself did or will do. like in the kingman forum where i told dude my opinion didnt matter cause i play with a double barrel blowgun and a slingshot. i try and not get too graphic cause of the kiddies. another rule, i wont bash a player beyond reason. i never get malicious with it. i never get my feelings hurt either even when they do try and bash me. i am a confident individual both in my life and my abilities on the field. not everyone is like that. they get pissed off easily and i take that into consideration. another thing. i never try and make it real personal. ill address a whole opposing side instead of calling out individuals or teams. i give my own players more of a hard time than i do anyone else. and vice versa.

in person, i am pretty respectful. especially when meeting an individual or team for the first time. i represent my team and its ethics on and off the field. sportsmanship with a little dash of class. im not one to go up and say, "im havokrooster and i will be throwin you a beating come tommorrow." more like "im h.r. nice to meet yall, feel free to come have a beer at our camp." you never know, next month you could be relying on those guys to deliver on the field. best not to start animosity. theres not a whole lot of tension or animosity about me or my team when we are pitchin camp. but i have felt it from others on opposing sides. seeing the mean mugs and hard ass attitudes, etc. its important to be competitive and aggressive. but not to the point where you comprimise respect for your fellow players. no matter what side your on. i treat a team campsite like i was a guest at their house. when i find someone who i believe to be givin me the bad attitude due to my teams side, i will shake their hand, smile, and respectfully, but sternly, tell them "i will look for you on the field". there is no rebutle to this. it leaves no room for any further conversation.

now i do have a limit as to what i will take from someone. you always got that 2% who think its an actual war and not a game and want to drag their personal beliefs to a game and rag on people. just last game me and buddy were sittin by the fire. its about 2 am. this guy comes wondering into our camp talkin about how he and his team are gonna slaughter the opposition and how they all have military training and such. real barney badass right. he gets on this white power kick. at this point i have to respectfully tell him that i think he is a little b..ch f...ot and i would appreciate it if he would get the hell out of our camp. prime example of bad ethics on his part. i keep personal beliefs regarding religion, politics and such controversies out of my paintball world.

i mean its just common sense. we are all paintballers and we are all in the game together. theres not a one of us any more important or superior to the next. it takes a collective to make a game. you can tell alot about someones life by how they conduct themselves come game time.

Southern Discomfort East Tennessee Scenario Paintball

"Descend into my sights, your fallen walls."
-Tom Araya

Havokrooster you have it about right for me too.

For Smack Talking in person you have to know who you are talking too before you get too intense, light banter is okay for casual encounters. If you do not you might step over the line very quickly and get yourself in trouble. Hell you can step over the line very quickly with people you know well with certain subjects, e.g. Race, Religion, Politics, and Family.

Thumper and I've known each other for almost 20 years. We talk about anything and everything and get into some deep debates but there is one thing we tip toe around with each other to this day. Religion. Thumper and I DO NOT AGREE on some specifics of religion, end of statement. We will discuss religion but we try to be patient and understanding and drop the subject if it gets too "heated". Now we are long time friends and have respect for each other but on this subject we have to get out the "kid gloves" when we are discussing it. Now just imagine using Religion in Smack Talk between us. Well lets put it this way it would not be pretty and could definitely damage our friendship.

When you are talking Smack remember this is just a stupid GAME. The outcome of this one way or another does not "Save Babies from Dying" or "Kick Old People out of their homes" in the big scheme of things Paintball means NOTHING. Smack Talk should be fun and minorly humiliating for both sender and the reciever. If it is not you are going too far and if you go too far you deserve the "Fruits of Your Labor".

"Qui tacet consentit"


"Rather fail with honor than succeed by fraud."
-Sophocles

I say if you smack talk, put some humor behind it... or Ill snoopy you!!



one big point to add - we may be enemies this game, but next game will may be sided together - i try hard to keep in mind when pushing buttons.