Put a fork in him, he is done

[crooked butt doctor]

Originally Posted by ace007

Ok, I quickly scanned over this thread & I try to keep up with current events, etc. I don't know if this can be considered a reply to Rags or not, but I'll throw this out there & let Rags and anyone else comment on it.

Our war on terror-- To me this is really 2 things: 1. Pay back or bringing those responsible for 9-11 to justice / death. 2. Weaking terriorist abilitites ON AN ON-GOING basis in order to make our world safer. This includes putting in safeguards and updating those safeguards within our own borders. It seems to me that this will never end.

Calling this a war is more philosophy to me than reality. It might be better to call it "our defense of world wide freedom".

The war in Iraq: I agreed with the war in Iraq, but have disagreed with many parts of how it took place. After the first Gulf War, there was an agreement signed by Sadam Hu-sane. These agreements are similar to contracts. He broke that contract many times before we invaded and in fact, we discovered new ways he had broken it after we invaded. Since then, we have taken control of the country at the macro level and gotten rid of or killed Sadam, his 2 sons, and many of his right hand men.

The first problem, and I noticed this the very first time I heard it, was in justifing the war based upon WMDs. He had already violated the agreement, therefore the agreement no longer exsisted & therefore we had the right to go back in-UN or no UN. So then we spent who knows how much time & money looking for WMDs.

Another problem was in paying for the war. Despite the outcry it would have caused from OPEC, I see everything right about selling Iraq's oil to pay for our costs plus the costs of rebuilding Iraq. I understand the intention of our policiy, which was two-fold at least: 1. Demonsrate that we weren't all about oil 2. that we were nice people, willing to dig into out own pockets to help others. The problem is, they don't care & we're going broke. I know this will make everyone sick, but a UN task force could have been put together to oversee the accounting of all of this in order to get a little independent oversight. Still would piss OPEC off, but since when are they our friend?

Then there's the problem of a permanent government in Iraq. People say we're losing the war--I say what war? We alreay won the war, we're just trying to put things right before we leave. Setting up a democracy may very well be "a bridge too far" in our objectives. especially with a nation that doesn't understand freedom, but it's a noble effort.

On crushing Al Qeada-- I can see where it's possible to damper their abilities, but I don't see putting a complete end to this type of organization. However, if you could get freedom & democracy to stick in the area, then they become outcasts among their own people after that takes hold. But that would take years & years I would think. Perhaps it's just as important that OPEC, etc., understands that it makes buisness sense to have peace between us & that region. Cheap oil lessons the need & desire to end our dependence on their oil. Letting oil get expensive is a short term money boost for them, but once we take off that noose, it's permanent bad news for them.

I would add that's it's probably been a mistake to focus so many resources on Iraq (time, money, people). Iran needs a good bombing for example-- no need to send forces in -- just spank them real good from the air. Perhaps that's all we should have done with Iraq.

Also, I hear a lot of fussing because we don't control Iraq at the micro level. This is usually the "we're losing the war crowd". This is virtually impossible to do-- Hitler in all of his glory never control the countries he invaded at the micro level. The Romans, BTW, understood this very well thousands of years ago & would even allow a certain level of self-government by the people (of themselevs) that they ruled.

i agree with you 100%... but it will not matter. i have made this same point over and over again, and ragtop will NEVER address your points-made. he'll counter with a video clip from 1994... or say musharraf is a terrorist.... he MAY BE RAGTOP, he may be, but until we clean up the mess in iraq, we can't really move forward.

we leave iraq now, we leave the people of iraq defenseless against the remaining extremists.

and in case you don't know, we ARE and HAVE been watching syria, iran, afghanistan, pakistan and several other suspected terrorist-friendly nations.

in 2004 my unit was keeping a constant watch on iran, even though were actually performing strikes in iraq. for the final time i say this to you.... YOU DO NOT HAVE ACCESS TO THE KIND OF INTEL THAT OUR GOVT AND MILITARY DO. you have only what you are allowed to know... get off your soapbox, you didn't uncover anything noteworthy.

ps- when you say WE should crush the terrorists.... are you implying that you'd like to join us?? or are you leaving that up to me and people like me?

for the record, i don't think you're a troop basher.

[GImpy]

WOW.. let me restate the first line of my last post .. Civilians and Media are Always LAST to Know. Meaning No matter who brings you the news that the Possiblitiy of Osama bing in Pakistan /were ever it has been a long time since they have had that info. They use their press confrences to essentially let you know what they found out 3 months prior. and to Hopefully sway the publics eye. As to why we are not in pakistan .. You are aware we are still fighting people were we are. are you also aware that most of the people and groups we are fighting are fromer regiments from Saddams army. Now you are probly one who is on the same side as hilary clinton and wants to run away IMMEADIATLY. well 1st that cant happen because lets use a paintball analogy. try getting all 2400 people at billys blanding bash out that one access road at once. It cant happen. you have to pick up the vender tents and camp sites and pack and move out in a nice filed line. there is not immeadiate about it. Also you do that your defense weakens and you will have attacks on the unsuspecting not to mention when we are gone the aformentioned Groups will start to take over little by little until people like sadam are back in power enslaving its people. Now I have been thier . I was there when we took the statue down. I have seen the good the bad and the ugly. But when I gave water, Food, and hope to a people who were terrified of what could happen to them on a day to day basis. That is why we stay. If i could go back I would. But i cant but we as americans Have a duty to see this through. This would be like helping a Producer of a game out and then leaving with all your people halfe way through and leaving them high and dry .. would that be fair???? Stop being self centered and think of others. Also if your so concerned about the well being of MY country complain about issues of Homelessness and boarder patrol. we are just trying to help others.

[GImpy]

I agree with the guys above my last thread just for clarification I was venting. For that I give you guys a BIG HOOO RAHH to this country
Semper FI

[Jukando]

For those of us who are here in the states and get are information or Intel on the war in Iraq or the whole war on terror from the Media, radio, television and newspaper you must admit they will not ever tell you what is actually happening, or paint a rosy picture because Negativity sells.

You do not drink this beer you do not get the hot Swedish bikini swim team, you do not wear this deodorant you stink and the babes will go away and if you do not brush with this toothpaste all your teeth will fall out, you see fear and sex sales. Next the media has twist on all this because they are pushing that thing I will not mention this time because I will be labeled something for saying, oh heck I will say it anyways an “agenda” and that agenda is to pull the wool over our eyes.

I had a good friend return from camp snake, can’t spell the other and do not care too, but he said progress is being made but since he has been home he has not seen one positive message of this displayed in the media. I believe him for he is a real trust worthy man. I could go on but since coming home from work I seem to have a temperature rising.

So with that I agree with the doc, we will never know the truth because of our clearance rating or the lack thereof.

Please forgive spelling and so forth I am going to bed for I can’t stop coughing….

Juk

[crooked butt doctor]

Originally Posted by Jukando

I will not mention this time because I will be labeled something for saying, oh heck I will say it anyways an “agenda” and that agenda is to pull the wool over our eyes.

Juk

well we agree on something. i guess thats a plus. you still couldn't do it without referencing my "labeling" of you.... over a week ago, in a different topic and thread entirely... and yet you seemed quite irritated when i suggested you should get thicker skin... my friend... please, let it go. i actually went back through the thread... i didn't label you, and even if i had... a thick skinned person would be over it by now. c'mon man.

[Jukando]

To Butt doctor

My whole point is this, PC teaches not to offend and to use slight of hand to label someone who has opposing views to substantiate their case, for instance (I did not say you were a “bigot” but your remarks are right out of the bigot play book), or something to that affect. Now I have learned through out my life that a man says what he believes, and I said what I did but my remarks where taken out of context, misrepresented by you and others, therefore I was label a bigot. Now I do have thick skinned but I can’t tolerate some who plays words games by saying they did not say something when in all actuality they did. I am not mad but when a point is to be made I do not let it go I am tenacious because I am passionate in what I believe. The point is if you are going to use slight of hand to label me or anyone else at least be man enough to stand behind the words that you write and what those words truly represent as you wrote them. If you think I am that way say so do not sugar coat it, be to the point and do not try little tricks that my children would use when they were little.

We all have freedom of speech however when someone says something but then claims the opposite of what they wrote I take offense because I am not ignorant and I understand what I wrote and what you or others have wrote as well. Which now leaves me in a quandary, so did you not understand what wrote and said about me, or did you but you were not brave enough to say so for some unknown reason. I do have a hard time accepting the later because you said you graduate college from Texas A&M or that you attend A&M, which means you are smarter than that so therefore you knew exactly how and what you were writing and insinuating when wrote what you did and I do not believe you were oblivious to the fact in how you stated it.

To make it crystal clear for you I will say that a Corvette is like a turtle but I am not saying it is slow. I will say my camaro is like a rabbit but I am not saying it is fast. What is the message here, that I feel my camaro can beat a Corvette but I did not say that. Those are childish games and I will say a corvette will beat my camaro unless the corvette is on blocks.

I hope you understand all this because I find the English language is fascinating especially when one try’s to hide a message behind a clutter of words because they want to remain PC, or they are to afraid to say what they feel for being castigated or they are like Jefferson, do not like confrontation so they have to hide behind deception in their writing or pennames because they are in all actuality afraid to say what they mean and mean what they say.

Juk

P.S. My original response in the original thread was good but it was removed when the thread was removed. My comments demonstrated the agenda of the homosexual lobby to show it is not just to be accepted or to be tolerated with kindness as human beings but more. I will show you one piece that I used but the low calorie version of it since the other one was so very long. If their only agenda is tolerance then why did they lobby the Olympics and win their argument for the acceptance of Transgender (Men) to be allowed to participate in the women’s events in the Olympics. This is wrong and should not be allowed, but I am a bigot with closed minded who does not see the truth of their cause…So I cannot see what is right or wrong because my ignorance is blinding from the reality of life and the long term effects that all of this could have on our nation.

Oh well I like to debate, but I am not mad, nor could you make me mad because to me all of this does not matter, if you want to debate politics go to the conservative voice and I will debate you all day long but be willing for your ideas to be attacked, not the person and do not try to insinuate as you have then say you did not label me, because there are smarter people than you or I there who have advance degrees and see though such shenanigans…

[crooked butt doctor]

Originally Posted by Jukando

To Butt doctor

My whole point is this, PC teaches not to offend and to use slight of hand to label someone who has opposing views to substantiate their case, for instance (I did not say you were a “bigot” but your remarks are right out of the bigot play book), or something to that affect. Now I have learned through out my life that a man says what he believes, and I said what I did but my remarks where taken out of context, misrepresented by you and others, therefore I was label a bigot. Now I do have thick skinned but I can’t tolerate some who plays words games by saying they did not say something when in all actuality they did. I am not mad but when a point is to be made I do not let it go I am tenacious because I am passionate in what I believe. The point is if you are going to use slight of hand to label me or anyone else at least be man enough to stand behind the words that you write and what those words truly represent as you wrote them. If you think I am that way say so do not sugar coat it, be to the point and do not try little tricks that my children would use when they were little.

We all have freedom of speech however when someone says something but then claims the opposite of what they wrote I take offense because I am not ignorant and I understand what I wrote and what you or others have wrote as well. Which now leaves me in a quandary, so did you not understand what wrote and said about me, or did you but you were not brave enough to say so for some unknown reason. I do have a hard time accepting the later because you said you graduate college from Texas A&M or that you attend A&M, which means you are smarter than that so therefore you knew exactly how and what you were writing and insinuating when wrote what you did and I do not believe you were oblivious to the fact in how you stated it.

To make it crystal clear for you I will say that a Corvette is like a turtle but I am not saying it is slow. I will say my camaro is like a rabbit but I am not saying it is fast. What is the message here, that I feel my camaro can beat a Corvette but I did not say that. Those are childish games and I will say a corvette will beat my camaro unless the corvette is on blocks.

I hope you understand all this because I find the English language is fascinating especially when one try’s to hide a message behind a clutter of words because they want to remain PC, or they are to afraid to say what they feel for being castigated or they are like Jefferson, do not like confrontation so they have to hide behind deception in their writing or pennames because they are in all actuality afraid to say what they mean and mean what they say.

Juk

P.S. My original response in the original thread was good but it was removed when the thread was removed. My comments demonstrated the agenda of the homosexual lobby to show it is not just to be accepted or to be tolerated with kindness as human beings but more. I will show you one piece that I used but the low calorie version of it since the other one was so very long. If their only agenda is tolerance then why did they lobby the Olympics and win their argument for the acceptance of Transgender (Men) to be allowed to participate in the women’s events in the Olympics. This is wrong and should not be allowed, but I am a bigot with closed minded who does not see the truth of their cause…So I cannot see what is right or wrong because my ignorance is blinding from the reality of life and the long term effects that all of this could have on our nation.

Oh well I like to debate, but I am not mad, nor could you make me mad because to me all of this does not matter, if you want to debate politics go to the conservative voice and I will debate you all day long but be willing for your ideas to be attacked, not the person and do not try to insinuate as you have then say you did not label me, because there are smarter people than you or I there who have advance degrees and see though such shenanigans…

holy effing crap dude. i'm going to put an end to this nonsense.

you DO NOT have thick skin when you TAKE OFFENSE to words. thats cut and dry. the meaning of the term "thick skinned" is a person who is unaffected by words or comments. you are affected. you have whined and complained about it in EVERY POST you have made since the time that you were so unjustly labeled.

simply typing that you "are not mad," nor could i "make you mad" does not suffice. you say you aren't and yet its been over a week and you are clinging to it. its pathetic.

next-
as for the word games, that is easily explained, and let me assure you, that i am MORE than capable of comprehending your point. your point is not real complex bro. after i wade through the run-on sentences and filter through the grammatical errors, its pretty simple. i ordinarily would not challenge a man's syntax, nor diction on the web, but you went to the length to suggest that i play word games and you are fascinated by the english language. apparently it fascinates you because it is so challenging for you. Kudos for trying.

my "word games" were no such thing. my ORIGINAL POST that so upset you, never ONCE labeled you, or even came close to LABELING YOU.
.............HOWEVER..........
when i saw you bitching and crying, despite your "thick skin" of course, i reposted that i NEVER LABELED YOU, BUT THAT I DID IN FACT THINK OF YOU IN THAT WAY.
what i was saying, that you obviously do not get, is that- i didn't call you a BIGOT in the first place, but i think you are one.

those aren't word games my friend. thats cut and dry.

let me spell it out for you again... i didn't say it, but i do think it. that is the entire main point to my first 2 posts.

here's your play by play:

my first post.... blah blah blah... sarcastic exaggeration about bigots ... blah blah... no labels....

your reply.... he labeled me.

another of your replies (to some other person)... i don't like being labeled...

yet another(to a different person)... i enjoy debating but don't like labels that are unjust.... i was labeled.

my second post.... dude, i didn't label you, but i think you are one.

then we argue... i label you... you complain about it in ENTIRELY UNRELATED THREADS (because you're thick skinned i presume...)

then we end up where we are now....

as we say in the marine corps- i'm gonna break this down Barney style for you. Barney is a reference to the big purple dinosaur that explains things on a child's comprehensive level.


big·ot (bĭg'ət) Pronunciation Key
n. One who is strongly partial to one's own group, religion, race, or politics and is intolerant of those who differ.

from www.dictionary.reference.com

guess what JUKANDO... the shoe fits brother.

you are strongly partial to your own group, and utterly intolerant of those who differ from you in their sexual practices.
and if you're not, then you should choose your words MUCH MUCH more carefully next time, because you clearly painted the picture of yourself as such. as you saw, i wasn't the only one who saw you as such.

now- if i were "thick skinned" in the same way that you are "thick skinned," then i'd be crying that you questioned my credibility with regards to college, questioned my intentions regarding upsetting you, and, LOL@you, my courage to say what i mean... directly. you called me PC... LMMFAO.... ask around d-bag... i'm about as far from PC as one can get.

if you don't know what d-bag means, its a label. ask a young person what it means.

luckily for me, however, i do not share your type of "thick skin." the kind of "thick skin" i have is the kind where i do not let words "offend" me. you know, "thick skinned" like the kind of "thick skin" people mean when they say "thick skin." hopefully my sarcasm is heavy enough for you to get the point.

i'm not sure if my skin is thick enough however, to withstand another of your more than irritating posts. i actually don't have much tolerance for weakness or whining. guess i'm a little bit of a bigot toward the weak. i can live with that. LOL... anyway...

you are a definition bigot, and apparently very sensitive about it. i have not only tried to calm you down, and referred to you using amicable diction, but i have referred to you as "friend," and tried to find a middle ground. i am past that.

my indirect approach with you was my attempt at being somewhat polite, or failing that, at least not directly in-your-face rude. i tried to keep it civil and state my piece, especially after seeing your crybaby reaction to my original post.

i am finished entirely with this, as i find internet discussions to be stimulating, whereas i find internet debates to be quite a waste of time, and somewhat futile. occasionally i find a good debate on the internet and i'll get involved... this my friend, is not one of them.

you were offended by my post. you stated that directly. my post to you started this entire ridiculous debacle. so for that, i am sorry. i am sorry to the people who started these threads, i am sorry to the people who wasted their time reading these threads, and i publicly apologize to the pbjunkie community as a whole. we all had to read through your septic high-schoolesque ranting because of me. no matter what you post from this point forward, i will be the bigger man, or the PC coward or whatever makes you feel like you've won and i will not retort. pardon my spelling, grammar, diction, and syntax, as i am working up to a deployment to iraq next week and it takes a lot out of me. hopefully i haven't stooped quite to your level yet. good day to you friend.

ps- i would LOVE to address your example about the transgender olympians... however that would likely provoke some type of posting out of you... and trust me when i say, nobody wants it to come to that.

MODS... you all know me in person... i'm not a dick... feel free to wipe this post... just don't close ACE's thread... its a good topic. JUK and I unjustly hijacked it.

edit: jukando cried in so many threads i forgot where i was... yeah ragtop's thread is pretty much worthless too... scrub the whole effing thing. i was thinking we were in ACE's discussion about classroom agendas. my mistake.

[Jukando]

Butt Pirate


As far as my poorly written response I apologize because it could have been written better but I have not been sleeping at night do to a terrible cough.


Thank you for responding, especially in the manner that you did because you proved my point and I won a bet.


Now for the last thing despite the obvious lack of respect we have for one another I wish you the very best on your deployment into harms way.