Dear Thumper,

[scpaintballer01]

I launched a thread on section8's forum (because it is a bit inflamitory) that may refresh elements of the ci mission statement with some consideration to current trends.

see:
tournament play corrupts pump ballers -- a serious discussion
...
ok, there is the can of worms.

is the risk real?

if so, what to do about it?

browsing the CI site and found this. im interested in your thoughts. Sharing is caring?

[wrath ltd]

come on thumper i wanna hear them...for education sake that is...i don't see how tourney play can coruppt a pump baller...besides making them to lazy to pump...and used to 15 bps...now 13 bps...

[thumper]

fair enough -- the discussion is real, as is the concern. This is not a slam on anyone - just a potential conflict I see on the horizon.

Now that junkie has a pump players section - maybe this is a good place to chat this out...

Mods: please keep an eye on this one. It could be a constructive discussion but if it turns into a attack - defensive thing, please delete &/or lock at will.

As for The CI reference : I view these guys locally as setting the standard for honor, integrity, fellowship etc in the pump culture. Much like the Scenario Brotherhood does in scenario ball. The brotherhood has its code of conduct for its members, which the CI lacks. The discussion on this potential conflict could possibly be addresses by simply setting that standard for pump ballers through organizations like the Carolina Interceptors -and then honoring the code for the younger players to follow. It has worked pretty well with the Brotherhood - and conceptually could work for the CI.

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Original Behind Closed Doors post

Im concerned.

Pump ballers the world over right now have the best reputations for honor and integrity of any style of paintball play --

I see speedball tourney players turning to pump.

Ive heard that 99% of all tourney players cheat to compete.

And I have seen first hand that tourney players that move into the woods for scenario ball have a hard time putting away the tourney techniques.

If you add these ideas together, soon tourney ballers turned pump ballers will be cheating in the woods - and trashing the current reputation.

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ok, there is the can of worms.

is the risk real?

if so, what to do about it?

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Cheating is not just for baseball
Chris DeForge 03/16/2005

cheating ramping wiping paintball psp

“It’s a sad fact, all pro teams cheat.”

“Cheatings part of the game”

“All guns ramp, so who cares?”

Playing on is very common in both tournament and recreational paintball. One must understand that by the inherent speed and ferocity of paintball, some players will accidentally play on through hits. I have been hit by strings of balls that I barely felt because of the adrenaline surging through my system. However, the playing on that has been prevalent recently is intentional, deliberate, and even pre-planned.

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New Years Paintball Predictions


Jan 1, 2008 David Johnson
aka Fubarius

New Years Paintball Predictions - mcarterbrown.com

A tournment league FINALLY hires a full time professional reffing staff. The number of penalties skyrocket the first couple months but then level out. Players agree that the reduced cheating is actually a good thing. (I've been predicting this one for the last couple years, maybe we'll get lucky this year)

A side effect is some big name player manages to get himself banned from the sport. Haven't had this happen since Jeremy Salm in 02.

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Bluetooth cheating?
Bluetooth cheating? - mcarterbrown.com

russc 12.15.2006
This is an interesting topic on PBN:

Here is the scenario.

Dude in the stands with a laptop, connects to DM6's on the field using blue tooth. Cranks up the dwell on the guns, that were set extra low, and increases FPS on the field. Then clicks just clicks a button once the game is over. Repeat through NXL match...

This is not a could be scenario. This is a scenario that is happening right now, by pro teams. Next PSP you attend keep an eye out for the dude sitting at the top of the grandstands alone with a little laptop with a blue tooth antenna in his wireless card slot...

If any of you guys have a palm pilot, you can sometimes get some strange bluetooth signals in the stands. This is why.

Crazy, isn't it.
Apparently an article was written about this in Facefull magazine, too. He also claims that software can be loaded into Pulse hoppers to interact with the gun board settings through the RF chip. Even if this isn't happening, it's very possible. With the right boards and wireless connections, someone in the stands could easily manipulate gun settings on the fly. I think it's high time to enact an all-out ban on batteries in paintball, that or leagues will have to start giving out stock boards/hoppers.

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Cheating is not just for baseball
Chris DeForge 03/16/2005

cheating ramping wiping paintball psp

Cheating removes the basic understanding between players that serves as a foundation for the game of paintball. When a player cheats, he gives himself a bad reputation, tarnishes the name of his team or sponsor, and increases the likelihood of his own injury through bonus balling. He sets a bad example for new players to the sport and wastes his own time by taking shortcuts instead of genuinely improving. I understand a large amount of people cheat in paintball and don’t expect to see an end to it any time soon. I strongly believe that it is the responsibility of the player of any level to educate new and inexperienced players that while victory should be strived for, the means in which one acquires it must be legitimate.

Bragging with friends about cheating through a game will do nothing but encourage a new generation of cheaters. While this may not seem to be a problem right now, what happens when five years down the line these same players are cheating against you? Cheating on the field simply invites inevitable problems for others and for you. It seems now that hundreds of players are jumping off the bridge. Whether you want to join them is your decision. Yet when all is said and done, no matter how many trophies adorn your walls or how popular you are, the only person you’ve really cheated is yourself.

[crooked butt doctor]

wow. very very interesting thread here. i can say that i haven't thought enough about this to have an informed decision. i would say, that even though you're likely correct thump, its still a stereotype basis and those who oppose your view will use that alone to attempt pick apart your argument.

i think that pumpers generally are very honest people. i think i see some woodsballers cheat, and i see a lot of tourney ballers cheat. i play speedball with friends, and i love it. but i don't play it a whole lot and i'm not a huge part of that portion of the paintball community. just as an outsider looking in- tourney ball seems to be dying to throw that ROCKSTAR REBEL image to the media. this is just my opinion, but it seems like they want us all to see what badasses they are... win at any cost. and somewhere along the way, a few people cheated and got away with it. now cheating seems par for the course. i know its not accepted by the league, and they have increased penalties for it, but it doesn't seem to discourage players from doing it.

i guess if you take the clean honorable rep of pumpers, and you mix it with the generally tarnished rep of tourney ballers, it could be at risk. i don't know how much risk though, i mean, woodsballers have been pumping for ever, and just like tourney, some woodsballers cheat. i haven't attributed any new level of dishonesty to pumpers yet.

i'm just gonna worry about numero uno here... i will continue not to cheat whatever format i find myself in. hopefully others follow suit and maybe one day the cheaters will be the vast minority in paintball.

[Shrub]

Amen...

[scpaintballer01]

Your logic is decent, but a bit flawed. Mainly because you forgot to mention why many tourney players are starting to play pump. Many people dont know this either, but there is a "code" in tourney ball that pretty much states "cheating in practice is retarded because it doesnt help you become better" - the same thought holds true in rec ball and almost all of "us" consider pump play as rec ball. just a way we can get AWAY from the bs of practice and tournaments so we can just play for the sake of playing. SC doesnt have a huge problem of cheaters because 1- we're so tightly nit that blacklisting somebody really hurts them 2- the pump community is x10 closer nit in the SC area because there's about 1/12 the SC pb community lol.

However, in a more general sense, i dont see it becoming a big problem because most tourney players play pump for a break from semi, so it's a throw back to their rec ball days. And, by playing honestly, it's making them better players. It's a win win situation.

[wrath ltd]

two things...one lawrence...i dont wanna be the only pirate...become one again...and also...good point...but i would consider pump play as much a challenge as tourney style play...i honestly have never cheated and don't wanna start it serves no purpose other than to say that...I SUCK so to make me look better i will cheat and win...rather than win honestly which is such a better feeling anyways...

[scpaintballer01]

Originally Posted by wrath ltd

two things...one lawrence...i dont wanna be the only pirate...become one again...

No.

and also...good point...but i would consider pump play as much a challenge as tourney style play...

it's not that it's not a challenge, but it's not being played for real competition, prizes etc... Just a more chill atmosphere.

[wrath ltd]

word...well soon it will be...

[thumper]

Originally Posted by wrath ltd

word...well soon it will be...

hey guys - a few things.

I'm impressed that this thread stayed very civil, and even productive. I just had lunch with a favorite mod of mind who mentioned the very same thing -- so hats off to you guys.

If I add the posts together and look at the "Is the Risk Real" and "What do we do about it" questions, Ide conclude from the discussion here that yes, the risk is real - but fairly minor for now. (and no, I havent seen any problems to date either -- the pump ballers I know tend to play overly clean and are generally excessively good sports -- I don't know of any exceptions )

What to do about it? -- Perhaps we police our own, and all work to set personal examples - and maybe others will follow suit (Good words by nix).

Looking to the future - I wonder how Hawaii and California pump tourneys are doing sportsmanship-wise?