FPO Vs. BYOP & Why The Markup Is There.

[spyderman84]

I don't mind paying the money for great paint if it means it goes back to the fields for better services, bunkers, forts, etc. I know it will make for a better experience next time. This sport is not like football or soccer where its easy to set up a field and let people play. There is genuine hard work involved and lots of money. Sure I cry a little every scenario at the amount I shell out, but it is so worth it when I drive back home with a huge gring on my face ready to remenisce about the game on here! In short.....as long as the money goes back to the field and therefore back to the players I don't mind spending the money one bit. I'm a senior marketing major so I always look at the business side of something like this.

[Omnicool]

I would pay a little extra any day for a well run and organized game. The extras the fields put in makes a big difference. Remember they are doing it for the players to give you the best experience. As said before you get what you pay fore.

Play safe and have fun,
Omnicool
Team Omni Force
www.teamomniforce.com

[yogi]

some fields are for the players some are for the money only

[spyderman84]

maybe we should root out the fields that are for money only and try to get MPP to use "good" fields that actually care enough about the players to put in the extra little amenities? i understand that its a business and you're there to make money, but if the players don't like your field, then good luck making money! lets get a revolution started to make all the fields like bearclaw with showers, running toilets, AND BELLY DANCERS!!!!!!

[24HG_Hoop]

Let me preface this by saying this is coming from a BYOP producer [24hourgames.com]...

Sure, BYOP isn't "free." I think the acronym might be FP [free paint] if it were. I doubt anybody confuses "Bring" with "Free," like "Hey Billy... Don't forget to Bring Your Boots" means that Billy might get free boots when he gets to the game, but that's neither here nor there.

In 2005, I switched over from FPO to BYOP.

Why?

Tons of complaints about:

-Somebody's flatline/Autococker/Mag/Angel didn't like my brand of paint;
-Somebody gun's eyes didn't pick up the shell color I'd picked;
-The bore of my paint wasn't right for their gun and they didn't want to buy a $200 Freak kit to get a good fit;
-The shell color I picked was hard for somebody to see flying to the target;
-Fill was too thick
-Fill was too thin
-Shell was too thick
-Shell was too brittle
-Paint sponsor wouldn't let them play at our field with non-sponsored paint
-Etc.

BYOP, even if the retail price of the paint is exactly the same, gives the player the OPTION of shooting whatever paint they want. Any and all of the prior complaints I used to get about paint surprisingly vanished. Go figure.

Since the retail price of paint isn't the same... and considering that gas has put a crunch on everybody's pocketbooks like it isn't even funny... saving a buck or twenty REALLY does matter to a lot of people.

We live in a world where "Little Johnny" saves and saves to build up $180 to buy an Ion that shoots 15 BPS, but can't afford to go play in a scenario game because it costs him [or his parents] $150-$200 a game. How cool is that for Little Johnny?? That's not really "inspiring" to the next generation of players that scenario paintball NEEDS to attract.

We live in a world where dads can't go out and play games because mom gets mad because dad can't also take Little Johnny with him, because its $150-$200 time TWO, or three ... or God forbid four! Dad usually sits at home because mom is mad about the family's finances, Johnny is mad if dad goes without him, etc.

So... yeah, even if its saving $15 or $20 a case, its worth it. Especially lately when gas is $3 a gallon and heating bills are quadruple what they used to be.

You've kinda also got to remember that $60 a case paint is really a RECENT phenomenon.... When I played a lot, from 1997 to 2002, everybody was FPO and nobody cared a lick about charging $80-$100 for a case of paint. Everybody's wallets got lightened since around about 9/11, and BYOP fields popped up, forcing the current $60/case prices. Otherwise paint would still be $80-$100 a case. Do a little math and subtract the current $60/case price from the $40-$45 cost figure and compare/contrast that with the $80-$100 price back in the day. People used to make $50 entry PLUS $50 a case. Multiply that per-case profit by somebody like me that shot two to three cases, and you see where I was paying somebody $200 profit every month [or more] just to play a fun [albeit simple] game. Being a player turned producer, that's SICK to think of how bad things used to be. At least its not as bad as it used to be, thank heavens...

The alternative solution to $50/case paint profits are/were little "outlaw" games of 5-15 people. Instead of 200 to 500 people getting together and meeting new like-minded friends, high-priced scenarios used to [still does...] force people into their own little thing, far from the FUN ... and almost always FAR AWAY from the safety ... that is scenario paintball as I know and practice it.

Ya know, I really don't want to grandstand on here about our BYOP policy, father/son discount, military discount, etc. but the bottom line is that I put on the same game that others do [catering to 250 to 450 players each game], all without paint profit. I do exactly the same "amenity package" noted above, paying for 100% of my prizes, but short of dinky $8 trophies and meals... for the same $50 entry fee. Consequently, I have to "pace myself" putting up major improvements, but I've dumped at least half of the money made from every game back into field improvements along the way. Electricity in the parking lot was the last thing, toilets and showers are next up, etc... I think its actually more beneficial to do it that way because every time you come out, something's changed. Wow... That bunker wasn't here last time! Cool... The parking lot doubled in size! Sweet... There's toilets and showers now!

I got into it because its cool to see people light up at things you've created, missions they get to run, experiences they get to have [and hopefully share with friends and family]. I already have a $80K a year job, so this is all just for fun for me. Some folks use paintball as their business, and that's cool if that's your gig. So, that doesn't mean that BYOP isn't viable, it just means that you're paying one guy's salary versus not. Its all just how you look at it.

I don't mean to come off like people that just make a living off of paintball are "evil" or anything - far from it - but let's not JUST say that BYOP is "the devil" because things like $1.30/player patches and a couple of $8 trophies have to be bought. Let's call a spade a spade and logically look at a solution to the issue...

If $15 paint profit is honestly the difference, then just charge $60 entry and go BYOP, considering you'll make the $5 difference [$50 + $15] off of people that need paint. I know it has made my life a whole lot easier, and it has given the players all kinds of options that they don't normally have.

--Producer gets his paint profit. Problem solved.
--Producer actually gets less headaches by not having to worry about suppliers, having to worry about shippings making it to the field, getting bad paint, having too much or too little paint, complaints about paint, etc. Problems solved.
--Producer loses face with National or whoever their paint supplier is, potentaily foregoing their prize help. So what.........

[spyderman84]

wow. that was informative. thanks man. i never experienced the $80-$100/case paint, but as a college student about to graduate and make around $33k/year, $55/case paint for bearclaw or $60/case paint for most scenarios isn't bad as long as (like you said) it goes back to the fields and thus back to the players. as for my previous post, i've gotten some negative feedback on a few posts and people on here need to understand that i have a bad sense of humor. my last post was NOT saying that all fields are bad b/c they don't have the luxories that bearclaw has. some fields just don't have the capactiy, funds, or really the target market isn't so large in that area. I'm just saying that if its feasible, lets get the fields who DELIBERATELY put off making the fields, ammenities, etc. better to make more profit to either 1)start putting money into the fields or 2) just don't host scenario games and stick to the weekends and tournaments for speedballers. I understand that a lot of the fields have hotels in the area that are pretty cheap for a weekend, but I believe that a lot of the community and comradeship is fed by the ones who camp at the fields and get to talk to and meet other scenario junkies. If the field operators/owners don't put money into the fields to help facilitate that, then we have lost a part of our community. I, for one, am looking forward to meeting some players from this forum at Operation Torch and as an avid camper, i'm really glad that they have such a nice area for me to camp in. As for your conclusion i agree whole hearditly with those statements. I personally couldn't care less if i win something at the drawings. ya, it would be wonderful, but i go for the experience and fun. you have a very good point 24HG.

[USArmyManOfWar]

I am sure some of us old timers remember playing in the mid to late 80s when paint was $80 per 1000 (and that's if you bought a 1000, which was a lot of paint at the time). Normal price was $10 per 100 rounds. On an average day, I'd shoot 200 rounds and some of the heavy fingers shot 500 for the day.
I played in Russia last year, took my employees on a company outing. Bought everyone 200 rounds. I calculated the case price (based on the 200 round per player price). It came to just over $200 per case. And that paint was shit (well, the weather was in the 20s and the paint turned into a glob of paint in your hopper). I'll gladly pay $50 - $70 per case at a well run scenario game.

[Skeeter]

Most players don’t mind paying a few $ over mail order for a case of paint. Players DO (and should) complain about the price and quality of paint when the field owner is gouging on price, or they try to pass of crap as quality paint.

I see and respect both sides of the argument here. As a player, I want quality paint at a fair price. As a field owner, the extra few $$ per case helps pay for the rent and the extra expenses of hosting a scenario game. The trick, in my opinion is to meet in the middle. We usually reduce our price of paint about $5 per case for scenarios, since these are the only times we become FPO. This gives the players a more than fair price. For our June game, we had $25 a case paint. Yes, we LOST money that event!!! The “Raiders” game a few weeks ago, we had $45 paint. We also offer 2 “flavors” of paint for each event. This gives the players a choice in what brand they shoot. If one does not work well, they can change to the other. We also do exchanges when this occurs.

As long as the fields recognize the needs of the players, they will probably do OK. If they don’t, they won’t be around very long.

[drewcif]

I agree, for what i pay 55 for at an MPP game i get great paint. If i payed a similar amount at walmart i would get a lot more paint that shoots like celery through a rubber hose (celery does not shoot well through rubber hoses FYI) AND further given that its an MPP game gaurauntees (in my mind) a top quality event well worth the cost.

Drew

[ultimateshock101]

ya as somebody said earler i am not going to run horrible paint through my guns which cost ALOT of money so i dont mind paying a little extra for paint that is better