You'd actually be surprised how many speedball tactics can be used... Yesterday i foudn myself powerstancing behind trees, and snapshooting quite a bit. It was only when someone came directly behind me that i was shot out. I noticed that a lot of scenario ballers were more worried about being "hidden" than just shooting with less of their body out. You can let whoever know you're there, and still have a chance to get them out. I got in plenty of 3 on 1s and such, and it was pretty fun.
As for the gun thing, I feel pumpers can't really complain. They CHOOSE to shoot pumps, and it would be highly prejudiced to block out people who have electro guns. Instead of bitching about it, suck it up and either buy a higher end gun, or get better with your pump. Either way, playing against faster shooting players will make you better.

Note: Prior to submitting, I've edited and re-edited this post a half a dozen times. I very much want to vent my feelings on this subject without trampling anyone's toes. None of this is directed to anyone personally. I'm simply and sincerely stating my feelings about this subject and I ask everyone who reads this to ponder these thoughts with a fair and open mind.

I started playing paintball back when gravity feed hoppers and constant air were considered high tech. Constant air greatly reduced the cost to play (CO2 powerlets are EXPENSIVE!) and hoppers allowed players to concentrate more on the tactics and less on how many rounds they have left. (Not to mention what a pain in the arse 10 round tubes are) Both were, in my opinion, good improvements.

But, frankly, I don't think many of the technological improvements since then have really benefitted the sport. But that's just me. Any improvement that makes markers more reliable and less likely to chop or jam I'm all for. And I'm loving it that paint is so much cheaper now than it was then (we used to pay 8 to 10 cents per ball). But firing +15bps doesn't help the game. It only results in an escallation of firepower where BPS becomes the end all to the game and overshooting becomes the norm rather than the exception. Most players now feel they have to have a marker that shoots 15bps just to be competitive! Yet, back in the day, wehad just as much fun back then, if not more. Yet there was far less envy, hard feelings and welts.

I would never impose a BPS limit on just electros and nor would I think it fair to do so. Any limit I had anything to do with rate of fire limits, it would be across the board. Frankly, I've never understood why R/T triggers are allowed in circumstances where full auto is not allowed. R/T triggers easily shoot from 12-15 bps.

BUT...

If there are field owners and/or event producers who are limiting just electros to a low rate of fire, you might stop and think about why electros are being singled out. I'm sure it isn't just because those owners and producers woke up one day with an attitude about electros without some justification - even if that justification doesn't apply even to the majority of electro players. Obviously the percentage is enough that those in that position feel the need to make that rule. Most likely there have been enough complaints and bad experiences with electros that those owners/producers are willing to risk antagonizing electro players for what they feel is the overall good of the game. For owners and producers, the number of players nearly directly results in higher profit. And since electros with high rates of fire potentially shoot more paint than mechanicals, limiting them shows a high level of antagonism, desparation or more likely, both.

Personal Water Craft are an example of something where the users in general have managed to abuse their way into falling out of favor with the general public. As a result, PWCs have been banned in some places altogether and highly regulated in others. Not every PWC user is obnoxious to be sure, but enough are (or were) that people have developed bad attitudes about PWC in general. Think about it.

Anyway, that's my two cents worth. Thanks for listening.

Everyone at Sniper played well, and with honor! It was a pleasure to ref that event!

Michael Curtis
Ref of the Old Code
NAPRA #256

And on the pedestal these words appear:
"My name is Ozymandias, king of kings:
Look on my works, ye mighty, and despair!"
Nothing beside remains: round the decay
Of that colossal wreck, boundless and bare,
The lone and level sands stretch far away.

The only reason the VC got 900 points is because thats when we went off the feild to get paint and air.

I went up the stairs to the tower yesterday to see if it was clear. When I rounded the top of the stairs one of my own guys shot me. When I turned around to see whick one it was there were three people inside the tower. shot me in the back 11 times. I got the welts to prove it. The 11 was on skin. Thats not counting the 5 to 6 that busted on my pack. All of this from 8 feet away. I am not whining. I am informing that it was happening on both sides.

Do they make instruments that measure balls per second? I mean without a computer and recording device... I think that would be pretty easy to make, but I don't know if they have that. But guns now have the ability to change rate of fire on the field, ramp and all that stuff. If there was a way to do it, and I was running a scenario, I would try to enforce a 10-12 bps limit. Rec-ball at TT is 6 bps, and I know I have seen bps going over that. Twice as fast, or maybe a little less, would provide plenty of firepower for a person. To me, if you shoot 20 balls per second, and shoot for two seconds at a person, if you hit them once you are just lucky, and personally that shot takes no skill. If you shoot 20 bps and hit the person 6 times in two seconds of shooting, you don't need to be shooting that fast. People who want to buy high-end guns would benefit from the consistancy, accuracy, efficiency and everything else about that gun, except its ability to shoot 20+ balls per second. However, as Thumper said, the more people the better, and if people wouldn't come because of a 10 bps rule, then that would be bad. Am I wrong in this? I'm sure I will hear it if I am...

I have an RT on my model 98, and yeah it can hit 15 bps easily with a good hopper. But I wouldn't shoot that fast if I did have a better hopper than my revvy. I like to make my shots count. I lay down lots of paint when I am laying cover fire, or there is lots of brush in my way that is taking out 50% of my shots. But for the most part, I like shooting one to three balls at a time. The best shots to me are the ones where you shoot one ball and hit your target. There is no shot more satisfying!

Wicked Lasers - Check these out!!!

I have a hand-held chrono that measures BPS as well.

Michael Curtis
Ref of the Old Code
NAPRA #256

And on the pedestal these words appear:
"My name is Ozymandias, king of kings:
Look on my works, ye mighty, and despair!"
Nothing beside remains: round the decay
Of that colossal wreck, boundless and bare,
The lone and level sands stretch far away.

as for your statement about our 900 pts... well that is stated like a true asshole. try to win with some dignity.
as for being overshot from 8 ft away. 8ft is close, that would startle anybody and the reaction for most is to hit the trigger first. like we've all been saying. shit happens. you made the statement that there were 3 of them, so 11 balls isn't overshooting, its a reflex. overshooting is 1 person putting 11 balls on you from 8ft.
i have a lot of respect for your team, however after this post- you lost stock in my eyes. take a few tips from your teammates, and try to mature a little. this was a grown up forum discussing a game that we all enjoy. the VC earned every point, few as they may be.

Good post areion, lets keep this thread undercontroll. In response- Tippmann A5/98Custom with RT...probably the MOST popular scenario used gun on the face of the earth, the A5. It's reliable, easy to use, and can shoot a good ammount. Now..the RT, the most popular upgrade on the face of the earth. Lets bring it to facts: there is NO way to competely controll a RT tippman. It has bad kick and the RT will cycle as fast as the hopper will. In tippmanns case, they claim that the cyclone feed is the faster hopper system in the world. Heck, ive seen a video of a mag going 34.7 bps with paint, ive got a vid and goldwaved audio to prove it too. BTW- it's not an Emag.

Now, i understand that some dont, but many do, producers and fieldowners subject out electro guns because of a select few incidents. My argument is that as an electronic marker owner i feel that im being almost discriminated against because of the style of play and choice of marker i have selected. What's even more common from what ive seen is players who discrimiate other players, for the same reason. "He's wearing all speedball stuff and has a new DM6, he's probably cocky, mean and ramps" well..umm...no.

To Debo- yes, there are divices, Pact timers, but they're horriable at doing it, the only 100% accurate way is to use goldwave or some other audio editor so you can see the actual sound. Debo, you say that you only really lay down the paint for cover fire, well, what happens if your shooting blindly for coverfire, but it just so happens that there is only 1 opponent your shooting at because the rest moved, and to get out of the way of your shots he ran away, but he ran away in the same direction your shooting that lanes and almost gets hit by every shot you take? It could happen? Also, if you believe that this "fast shooting" game takes no skill, then im personally inviting you to come with me next time i play and ill personally let you use my marker, not to prove that your wrong, be mean, anything like that, but to let you know that all parts of paintball involve skill, some takes more skill in different areas than other though. Example- woodsball usually takes more "sneaky" and silent movement type things, in speedball, they're gona find ya, no need to be silent. A contradictory- most people say woodsball takes more accuracy....well, it's true, you do have to be accurate to make your shots count, but what happens if you can only see about 3in of sombody, you miss, they turnaround, have the angle on you and shoot you out? Happens all the time in other parts of the sport.

/rant for the moment.

I have played pump, stock class, mosified stock class and unlimited. My first marker was a splatmaster and from there I went to a SL-68II and then to a unibody phantom. I played straight pump and only pump from 1989-1999. I understand where he is coming from, but, I do not agree with limiting electro's only. (Please note that I made this post prior to Aerion's response and I see that he was not talking about electro's only.) If you want a truly even playing field, make everyone use rental pumps.

Aerion, I too started playing in the days when 12 gams were the rule. I remember the same arguments being used (high rate of fire) when autotriggers and CA first came out. I get a little defensive b/c of being singled out because of the type of marker I use. I play the game with honor and want to see that reciprocated.

Beating the crap out of cancer.

I think he left a smiley out of that post about the 900 points.

Beating the crap out of cancer.

Sorry about that everyone, Tig was just clowning around and had not read the previous posts before submitting his. He didnt mean to step on any nerves.

Tig, try to remember the emoticons next time bud

The Fifth Horseman

Carolina Riot

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