thank you for the clarifaction! Cant wait....it must come faster!

From a "consumer's" perspective (of your big game product) I would say that the title of your event may lead to some confusion and ultimately some level of customer disatisfaction....

While your flyer does explain the game format, the event title implies somewhat more historical imersion than what your planning on delivering.

I do aggree with your general premise of creating a new player friendly environment, but then why not just call the event the "Old School Paintball Big Game"?

Why not save the Super61 concept for a later time when your ready to move to a more complex format?

On the other hand I think that it is possible to achieve your primary goal of creating an experience that will encourage first timers to come back again while creating a higher level of immersion that will appeal to more experienced players and still keeping the game fairly simple to manage.

The challenge is creating opportunities for involvement for everyone.......

Im bringing this forward to help preface Grendel's answer Im sure he is chewing on

You have a point some players may be dissatisfied. This is completely unavoidable. I have no idea how many scenario/big games I've attended (30+) and I've put on as the promotor and gamesmaster 11 games over the years, and someone always complains no matter how hard you try to make people happy. What Thumper and I are trying to do is take what we like from our experiences and start up a new/young player friendly game that will still appeal to more experienced players. Our first game may be a little over simplified for some players but what we will guarentee is that the game will be run fairly and safely so everyone can have a fun day despite any potentially precieved shallowness in the storyline. Though do not get the wrong idea there will be more of the real story in the game than you seem to believe, we just are not showing all our cards, these will be left for your enjoyment during the game. Right now all we are releasing are the rules and the storyline we do not want to give away the whole game on the forum, better to have it unfold during the game.

We have unashamedly stolen "good" ideas from other promotors like the insertion rule that you can reinsert at your base when you collect a minimum of 5 friendly players. This came from a recent game at PBC D-Day that Tim Harrelson came up with and it worked great and it appeared all the players loved it, us included, so we are using it.

Trust us we are listening to your good ideas and it might inspire some changes to our existing setup. It is more likely that some of your input would actually influence future games more though since we really do want to keep this as simple as possible for the new players we want to attract. In reality most of the seasoned players I know never really understand the storylines to the games they attend they tend to be more tightly focused on immediate objectives and maybe a mission not the big picture. We actually want to change this and get players paying attention to the big picture of these games and we feel the first step is go back to a simple game and put the control of stratagy and tactics into the players hands and their generals instead of being scripted by the promotor and/or gamesmaster. Then over the course of several games increase the depth of the game without loosing the players control in the story.

We appreciate you effort and hope that you'll keep it up because we do not know everything.

"Qui tacet consentit"


"Rather fail with honor than succeed by fraud."
-Sophocles

Well, I must say that I fully understand and aggree with your general approach.

While I haven't been to many big games/scenario events most of the ones I have been to have not been very enjoyable with the exception of EMR's Castle Conquest (which also used a fairly simple format).

The main reason for this I have found, is that unless you are close to the promoters/gamemaster ect.. or part of an established team, it's easy to get relegated to the periphery of the action. When I went to Castle conquest I went as part of an established team (F-Troop) and was able to get into the game in a big way. Other times, when I have gone with just a few friends, or by myself I felt somewhat left out. Just sort of running around the filed shooting at people or being shot at but not really a part of the "game".

I think if you can deliver an experience that will allow most of your customers to feel like they were involved, included and a part of the game, no matter their level of experience, you will be very sucessfull!

Anyway, I look forward to this event and others you will put on in the future.

(Maybe I'll get chance to meet you guys at the game!)

Trust me if you come to the game you'll get to meet us. Thumper and I will be on the field and off the field, checking with players and refs and generally "pressing the flesh". We are wanting to get as much feedback possible from everyone to help us decide what does and does not work so the next game can reap the benefits.

I've been in the same boat as you concerning not feeling involved with the game. There is something to be said about being part of a scenario team because you are working with like minded individuals and because it's not just and individual acting your actions can have on a game. There are unfortunely players who attend these games just to throw paint and rack up eliminations but this does not win the game, accomplishing organized objectives win the game. Technically you can be of just as much value during a big/scenario game without a gun as you can with. We have a couple of players on our team who might not even carry a gun on the field. They tend to be more involved in Command and Control or Liason efforts between organized teams, and their value is most likely greater than mine during a game.

John and I miss some of the aspects of Old School paintball, mainly the brains over brawn. We want to make games that it pays to be a smart player not how fast you can pull a trigger or how much paint you can afford to buy.

"Qui tacet consentit"


"Rather fail with honor than succeed by fraud."
-Sophocles

I think I read somewhere that you wanted to limited peoples' markers to 6 bps?

Is this true? How will you manage this?

easy..if i (stating for reffs) see anybody shooting shooting hot or faster than we think we pull 'em.

stepping in for a second. Nice thread guys, and you are all right.
please allow this reply to supercede Scpaintballer01's comments.

As for the 6bps - this is to discourage the speedballer who just wants to sling paint, and to encourage the parent who wants to allow their 11yr old to go with dad or his friends to his (of her) first big game and have a GOOD feeling about the decision.

Experienced scenario players will appreciate and understand this rule and will play by it with out any ref suggestions or intervention. There is honor in the woods. You just have to ask. And we are asking the players to help us provide a family friendly venue for the good and growth of the sport.

These same scenario players know that teamwork and communications count far more than rate of fire, and thats why they will come. The rate of fire request will have little bearing on the outcome of the game, but should contrinute greatly to the overall experience by the newer players.

Any player caught dumping on a kid should be asked to calm down a bit.

Any player who cant follow this request whould get his card punched (which had 5 possible punches - any 3 of which void the card). And we will notify his team captain of the action, and ask that the team captain meet Grendel and I off field for a chat. There is honor off field as well.

Net consequence:

1) We should not have any complaints or angered players about being overshot. (which I have seen a lot of lately)

2) Some "gunners" will go elsewhere to play.

3) We will attract new players interested in taking their recball play to the next level.

4) We will help grow and nurture new scenario teams.

5) Our experienced scenario teams will be compelled to focus on teamwork and communciations - or even consider our venue as "teamwork practice".

6) Many true pump players find themselves having to pull out their semi's midway through the game. They generally dont want to. Now they may not need to. . I know, cause I'm one of these guys. And we have a TON of pump players coming out of Charleston. (Paintball Charleston does a GREAT job of encouraging pump play as its local players mature)

7) The Spiders and Tippmanns should be plenty of firepower.

Summary: Some scenario games are speedball in the woods. I personally find this boring and detrimental to the sport. Old School Paintball has made a business decision to focus on a more family friendly, old school format.

From your previous posts, it sounds like you know all of this already, but I just wanted to clear up the previous post.

Thanks for listening.

As for me, I would be playing my '94 Sniper II - but I gotta help run things.

I grow more excited about the prospect of what "Old School" is going to bring to table....

I am a mature paintball player, lets just say the first time I played we were using the plastic shop glasses for goggles and the Nelspot pistols with the 25 gram cartrige in the pistol grip (I think it was at the Survival Game in upsate New York).

Anyway, I have gone through the whole tournament thing, played a few big games/scenarios and while it was exciting for a time I really missed the fun and excitement of the first time I played.

I'll be bringing my Phantom, but I have also been comteplating a new marker purchase. The truth is I have been agonizing on whether to go high end electro (Timmy, Impy whatever.....) or go old school (Palmer Typhoon).

My heart has been saying get the Typhoon but my mind has been saying "it won't be any fun getting hosed by some teenager shooting 20 bps " (I don't run as fast as I used to).

Of course, old school skill and fieldcraft can usually trump software and a fast trigger finger, however, with today's emphasis on the speedball style of play this has been lost, and in my estimation the greatest opportunity for fun, excitement, not to mention the original spirit in which our sport was intended.

I have just found fewer and fewer venues which cater and encourage the old style of play. Perhaps this is due to the influx of younger Gen x, y and z players used to high speed, high amplitude music and entertainment, with little patience for the slower sneak, peak, and shoot style of play.

I can rember the fun I had playing that first time, the thrill, the intesity! I think I used less than 200 paintballs that day (most likely less), the marker wasn't all that accurate, and not easy to operate (reloading that 12 gram under pressure was a b****ch!). I rember, out of air and paint I was still able to play! I even captured a flag without firing a shot!

Today that would be almost impossible given smaller speedball type fields or mass games with people focused on nothing but shooting as much as they can.

I am really looking to regain some of that excitement and me thinks Old School Paintball Productions will be able to deliver....