New Tanker rule book

[Saludapaintballer]

RULE: Walkers must get out of the way of one tank taking a shot at thier tank. I missed out on 4 EASY tank kills because the walker wouldnt move out of the way and I didnt want to chance taking thier walker out with a nerf. I am going to just go ahead and kill two birds with one stone next time...(J/K)

We are parking the Saluda River Tanks for a while. We are going to concentrate on pounding the ground with excellence....

[Brain]

Originally Posted by Saludapaintballer

RULE: Walkers must get out of the way of one tank taking a shot at thier tank. I missed out on 4 EASY tank kills because the walker wouldnt move out of the way and I didnt want to chance taking thier walker out with a nerf. I am going to just go ahead and kill two birds with one stone next time...(J/K)

We are parking the Saluda River Tanks for a while. We are going to concentrate on pounding the ground with excellence....

So no Tanks in Nov.?????

[Saludapaintballer]

Nope.... Taking a break from it for a while....

Originally Posted by Brain

So no Tanks in Nov.?????

[socoj2]

Originally Posted by Brain

Ha, ain't gonna happen. We pay refs to work our games. We will not eat that amount of money just so a tank can show up. There are already perks to bringing a tank in place. Qualified refs are also hard to come by in large quantities. With insurance and stupidity the way it is today, the tanks are going to have to provide their own ref. This ref will be responsible ONLY for his or her tank. There a limited number of tanks around and all that I have seen and played with/against are straight up. If anyone decides to cheat then they will soon find themselves not invited to games and black balled in the tanker society. You all have to remember that these games are for the players not for the tanks, the tanks are part of the game but not the reason for it. Rules should be simple so that the players understand it as well as the tanks..

We are not saying dedicate a Ref to the tank the whole time its on and off the field. but when a tank pulls up to insert, what is the difficulty of picking up a ref, and the Ref walking with the Tank. I can PROMISE you once the tank gets into the battle wether there is a walker with it or a not a field ref will be needed.

Now, at the last game most of the scenario and rec players dont have a problem listening to a Walker. The problem stems from the full time speedballers that want to go play in the woods for a weekend. Look at wizard's incident, and the OO i saw the walker point my way so i lite him up.

Some people just wont listen unless its a field Ref. and if the walker tries to press his point he is just going to get shot up. And you will have a major insurance issue on your hand.

/Edit forgot to say, you guys comp Tanks now, Im sure the tankers would be much happier Paying and getting a field Ref then dealing with the walking Non-sense.

[Brain]

Originally Posted by socoj2

We are not saying dedicate a Ref to the tank the whole time its on and off the field. but when a tank pulls up to insert, what is the difficulty of picking up a ref, and the Ref walking with the Tank. I can PROMISE you once the tank gets into the battle wether there is a walker with it or a not a field ref will be needed.

Now, at the last game most of the scenario and rec players dont have a problem listening to a Walker. The problem stems from the full time speedballers that want to go play in the woods for a weekend. Look at wizard's incident, and the OO i saw the walker point my way so i lite him up.

Some people just wont listen unless its a field Ref. and if the walker tries to press his point he is just going to get shot up. And you will have a major insurance issue on your hand.

/Edit forgot to say, you guys comp Tanks now, Im sure the tankers would be much happier Paying and getting a field Ref then dealing with the walking Non-sense.

Refs are assigned specific areas of the field to patrol. There should only be 1 ref at each insert and their job is to chrony markers and make sure players tag their base. If a ref is coming back on the field from a break he should be heading out to his assigned area. The refs will treat a tank just like a player when it is their area. The point of a walker is to keep players from being injured by the tank running them over, that is it. If the walker calls their tank out after it is hit then they are providing an additional service the same as if they pick up and return rockets.
As for the paying for a ref it comes again to adeqaute staffing. For the game in November we will have 20 paid refs for the weekend. Most of our normal staff like to play the sceanrio games but we still get a few that need the money more than they need to play. Therefore we have to outsource our staff for these games. We already have 4 tanks for this game so I would need to tell 4 people that they can't play the game. Ain't gonna happen...
Most tanks are part of scenario teams, it isn't a big deal to find someone to help. We do it when we go out of town.

[gfgjester]

At great personal risk , I would suggest that the Tankers/Producers/Fields form an alliance for the purpose of standardizing everything. Very basically, Walkers/Tank Refs/drivers would be required to attend a class/correspondence/web course to become certified in everything Tank. It may sound like a lot of extra work, but doing it would ensure that those events that have tanks with certified personnel are safe and within established limits. And I can promise you that insurers would look favorably on an tank group, (tank, driver, walker) that is sanctioned by an organization dedicated to standardized safety and operation practices. STUSA - Scenario Tank Uniform Standards Association. Even though I'm not a tanker, I'd volunteer to assist in the administrative stuff just so things can become uniform...

[Bobio]

Originally Posted by Brain

Refs are assigned specific areas of the field to patrol. There should only be 1 ref at each insert and their job is to chrony markers and make sure players tag their base. If a ref is coming back on the field from a break he should be heading out to his assigned area. The refs will treat a tank just like a player when it is their area. The point of a walker is to keep players from being injured by the tank running them over, that is it. If the walker calls their tank out after it is hit then they are providing an additional service the same as if they pick up and return rockets.
As for the paying for a ref it comes again to adeqaute staffing. For the game in November we will have 20 paid refs for the weekend. Most of our normal staff like to play the sceanrio games but we still get a few that need the money more than they need to play. Therefore we have to outsource our staff for these games. We already have 4 tanks for this game so I would need to tell 4 people that they can't play the game. Ain't gonna happen...
Most tanks are part of scenario teams, it isn't a big deal to find someone to help. We do it when we go out of town.

But the tank walker is also acting as a referee to supplement what is usually a group of people who are asked to perform nearly impossible tasks at best. Tank referees / walkers need to carry the same authority as field referees and that point needs to be heavilly emphasized at the player's safety meeting. AND there needs to be a way to force the players to attend the safety meeting. We are lucky to get 1/3 of the players to attend said meetings.

[Brain]

The big problem with the walker having full ref credentials is that you will have players complain that they are biased. I wouldn't worry about tank versus tank, again the honor thing but the hundreds of players that will complain.

One thing I did forget to mention earlier was that if the insurance problem becomes resolved then the walkers will probably go away for the small to medium sized tanks.

[Tradeguy]

Originally Posted by socoj2

Trade... You played MPP at hickory. Your guys stick guns out of murder holes.. according to Ben if one of those guys get shot on the barrel he is dead.... You may just now be aware of this rule errgo the problem.

Sorry for posting and then disappearing...got busy.

You're correct, I wasn't aware of this rule. I was at the tank meeting (along with my crew), and read over the MPP tank rules very carefully - this rule was not mentioned and it's not listed. I spoke with Ben many times during this game, and it was never mentioned to me - and was never mentioned by any ref.

I read over the posts since then, and I understand the ref/walker dilemma. From my point of view, just asking us to provide a walker is actually a big deal. My team is from all over the SE, and if we were to go to - let's say PB Charleston - it's a big haul for any of us. Asking someone to walk the tank means 1 less playing team member - who probably drove 6-12 hours and took 1-2 days off from work for a fun weekend. No matter who does the walking, field or team, it's a burden on someone. I'm not saying it's a huge deal - but I won't trivialize the contributions these walkers make either.

I trust my walkers to be fair - and I think they would actually prefer having "ref" credentials - but like Brain suggested, I've already seen players complain.

Brain said " You all have to remember that these games are for the players not for the tanks, the tanks are part of the game but not the reason for it."

Yeah, I wouldn't argue with that...but they do add a lot to the feel of the game. I've been playing scenarios for a long time now (only recently as a tanker) and I think tanks really make a difference. You know it's a scenario when there are tanks - and not just a fancy rec game, or weekend in the woods. Tanks represent a major unpredictable obstacle that demands your attention and requires strategy and organization to overcome. Nothing gets a player's heart pounding or feet moving like a oncoming tank.

Tank encounters make some of the best war stories, and that keeps players coming back.

So say what you will about the importance of tanks, but it's one of things that hooked me on scenario ball in the first place.

[Bobio]

Originally Posted by Tradeguy

Sorry for posting and then disappearing...got busy.

You're correct, I wasn't aware of this rule. I was at the tank meeting (along with my crew), and read over the MPP tank rules very carefully - this rule was not mentioned and it's not listed. I spoke with Ben many times during this game, and it was never mentioned to me - and was never mentioned by any ref.

I read over the posts since then, and I understand the ref/walker dilemma. From my point of view, just asking us to provide a walker is actually a big deal. My team is from all over the SE, and if we were to go to - let's say PB Charleston - it's a big haul for any of us. Asking someone to walk the tank means 1 less playing team member - who probably drove 6-12 hours and took 1-2 days off from work for a fun weekend. No matter who does the walking, field or team, it's a burden on someone. I'm not saying it's a huge deal - but I won't trivialize the contributions these walkers make either.

I trust my walkers to be fair - and I think they would actually prefer having "ref" credentials - but like Brain suggested, I've already seen players complain.

Brain said " You all have to remember that these games are for the players not for the tanks, the tanks are part of the game but not the reason for it."

Yeah, I wouldn't argue with that...but they do add a lot to the feel of the game. I've been playing scenarios for a long time now (only recently as a tanker) and I think tanks really make a difference. You know it's a scenario when there are tanks - and not just a fancy rec game, or weekend in the woods. Tanks represent a major unpredictable obstacle that demands your attention and requires strategy and organization to overcome. Nothing gets a player's heart pounding or feet moving like a oncoming tank.

Tank encounters make some of the best war stories, and that keeps players coming back.

So say what you will about the importance of tanks, but it's one of things that hooked me on scenario ball in the first place.

I whole-heartedly agree with the statements above. We try to rotate the drivers/gunners/tank walkers so everyone gets to play during the game. If a tank ref is found being biased towards his tank have the head ref penalize the team. I think the majority of us are not biased and play fairly.

Bottom line to me is the tank walker must have full ref authority if he is to be effective on the field.