I overheard players at BC say they 'lit up regular refs and taught them a lesson' cause they thought 'the ref was pointing them out'. Fair or unfair?

Same for walkers. Right or wrong is this fair?

I don't call hits on players from paint but I will stop tank fire so players can exit. Fair or unfair?

Since I have line of sight from tank to target it's easy for me to see the hit or miss and call it. Fair or unfair?

I will call a something hit by cannon as out and direct the ref. I understand that if a building or portion is hit( like a left corner) then the occupants are eliminated. Not as I saw them run out the back and back into play. Fair or unfair?

Had one player try to barrel tag a tank's gun for heavens sake. Didn't understand why I kept calling him eliminated. Fair or unfair?

I really think enforcing any tank play aginst a player will seem unfair when he doesn't know the rules. I doubt 30% of the refs know either based on tanking experience at 12 games.

If having a tanker walker only lay back and laissez-faire intervene in the case of danger is the plan, I'm cool with it. I think it's a waste of a resourse but I understand perception. I would expect the refs to know and enforce safety and gameplay rules for both sides regardless of the perception. As any player would.

last parting shot about hundreds of players complaining: I've never, ever heard a player call themselves out from a nerf shot to a bunker when the ref says " I didn't see it". Ever.

Ok there is a constructive rule in this rant: Tank markers should shoot lower velocity. There's some mental barrier that causes players to ignore tank hits. 240 to 250 will keep us from hurting the invincible.

Interglacials are short and then we enter the nasty brutishness of the glacial periods.

http://www.blackhearts.net
http://smartcorps.smartparts.com
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I can tell you what some of our walkers have done at games...I don't know if this is right or not...

We've never been to a game where a walker was an official "ref" (outside of calling the tank itself out), but I tell our walkers that they should act like a resource for us and refs. They can call us out, but they can also make sure a ref is watching when we blow a building or bunker. We will routinely ask our walker to find a ref when we know we're going to need one.

Some of our more aggressive walkers will tell players behind a bunker or building we just hit that they have been blown up by a LAWS. I can't see how it's wrong for someone on the field who has witnessed a "kill" to not mention it. They know they are not refs and don't have the power to call someone "out" - but neither does the player who calls for a ref to check out an opponent "they know they hit".

Is it wrong to yell out "hit" and point to the bunker that was obviously just blown up? The actual refs can call it how they see it, but should our walkers be blind as well as invisible?

If one team is required to have a walker, so will the other team. So in a fight there will be two walkers at minimum, meaning two people on the field watching only the tanks. There may even be a ref around, but in my experience walkers and tankers respect a call from a fellow tanker that a "corner of my eye" call by a ref afraid to get hit. I can recall at least 3 times that our tank and the other were hit about the same time, and the walkers both called it, shook hands/waved, and raised each flag. No big deal.

Ross
"Don't be afraid of the machines scenario players build... only fear what we would do if we didn't have paintball."

List of NEEDED Things for a Scenario Game
1) Mask 2) Gun 3) Money 4) Goldbond
5) Man Wipes (wet/baby wipes, but with a manly sounding name... we need em to!)
6) Pepto-Bismol

My thoughts on tank rules:


1> 10 feet should be the minimum! 20 feet isn't too far to throw a satchel. At a full run, most people will fall down over more than 10 feet and the major reason for a 10 feet rule (or 20 feet rule) would be to keep people out from under the tank.

2> If full time refs are not available, then tank walkers need to have authority to act as refs in matters regarding the tank. (Give the walkers an orange vest and most players will assume they are refs anyway) Walkers are useless if they can't enforce the rules. If a player disses a walker then that player should be removed from the game (and the game will be MUCH better off without them). By the same token, tank walkers must be fair or the use of tanks could be placed in jeopardy in future games.

3> There needs to be a balance between the number of tanks and the number of tank killing weapons. This is a safety issue since frustrated tankers are more likely to behave over-aggressively. Tanks to bring a lot to a scenario game. They definitely step up the adrenaline factor when they appear on the battlefield. Making them too easy to kill cheapens them. At the same time, tanks can't be invulnerable either. Tanks need to be a strategic challenge.

4> Limiting the number of guns on a tank is reasonable as long as it isn't taken to the extreme. Rate of fire should be considered as well. What I would limit is the number of guns on a single mount. Four guns simultaneously firing 15 ball per second is 60 ball per second. That's SCARY!!

5> Deciding if a gun is "mounted" or not isn't that difficult. Just look at the tank fer Christs sake. If a tank doesn't have an actual mounted gun then the producer/owner can grant an exception for one gun on that tank. If there is any question, then the producer can mark with tape all "mounted" guns or guns that should be considered mounted for the purpose of elimination rules.

6> A mention of the walkers and what they do for tanks during the safety briefing could do a lot to reduce problems.

7> Tanks should also be subjected to a safety check prior to the game. Main guns must have a structural check. Some standard needs to be established on the visibility that drivers have and some mechanism to verify that visibility. Brakes and other safety equipment tested. All guns chronoed.


And last but not least... lighting up anyone for punitive reasons should be a banning offense - especially refs.

Michael Curtis
Ref of the Old Code
NAPRA #256

And on the pedestal these words appear:
"My name is Ozymandias, king of kings:
Look on my works, ye mighty, and despair!"
Nothing beside remains: round the decay
Of that colossal wreck, boundless and bare,
The lone and level sands stretch far away.

Alright, I'm going to chime in on the mounted guns tank rule. I think most of us can agree that the major East Coast producers (people who produce games in multiple states) are Black Cat, MPP, MXS, Viper, and Wayne Dollack. Of these, the ONLY producer who requires mounted guns is MPP. All of the other producers have determined that that rule is overcomplicated and superfluous.

I have to echo what Tradeguy and Bobio have said. I have tremendous respect for both of them, and they have a lot more tanking experience than many of the people here (I'm not trying to step on toes, but they've been in this for awhile).

As for tanks not being valuable assets at games. Well, clearly you didn't see pictures of the Omega after Village of the Damned @ Splatbrothers. On the first insertion alone, the opposing team dumped more than 2 cases of paint onto us. By three hours into the game, our speedball netting was disintegrating. We spent more time off the field repairing netting than we did on the field. At the end of the game, we had to pull the tank for the next few games because the netting was completely destroyed. I actually had to ask the opposing team to lay off shooting at the windows because it wasn't blinding us, but it was actually damaging the tank.


That is a lot of paint, and that was a single insertion which lasted about 20 minutes. 24 hours of that equates to a lot of cases of paint sold, and at $80 a case...well, you do the math.

1) 20 foot minimum is the standard and makes the most sense to me.

2) Already addressed this.

3) Again, what Tradeguy and Bobio said. If only 5% of the people on the playing field have any way to disable a tank, frustrations are going to mount and tanks will not be so much fun for people. If 15% or 20% of the people on the field can at least disable a tank (ie, those willing and able to purchase grenades), then tanks aren't so frustrating. And as far as only being able to throw a grenade 20 feet...I throw like a girl and can still get a grenade to go 50 feet at least. Farva from Team Anarchy can throw a grenade about as far as a LAW can shoot a rocket, its ridiculous. Kill a tank? No. Disable one, yes.

4) Tank walkers should have full ref powers in tank-matters. Echoing what has been said, if the tank walkers have no power to enforce any rules, they are really just decorations.

5) 100% agreed. I'd jump for joy if more than half of the refs knew and understood tank rules. Blanding in May was a huge headache for our crew, and thats all I'll say about that.

6) Why? We have one cannon and three guns, we're not that close at all to your limit, but I see no point to limit the number of guns a tank can carry. The demon tank (its big, its green, it has 3 turrets, but I don't know its name) has a ridiculous number of guns and laws, which make it a formidable opponent. The fact that no side is safe to attack it from makes it that much more of a challenge.

7) Speed limit--5mph or walking speed. The walker is the designated pace car, so to speak.

8) Safety checks:
a) Main gun--if it has one, it should be safe and have all the necessary equipment (ie, burst disks or blow-off valves, no cracks in PVC pipe if used)
b) Equipment--fire extinguisher, full brake system, parking brake, etc
c) Sight lines--can the driver see 360 degrees, or see 360 degrees with assistance of the crew?
d) Doors--at least one door on sides or rear, and an escape hatch on top


What else needs to be added to the list?

WTF OTTO!

-->Tippmann A-5 RT w/ UMP mag, stock, and body
-->Tiberius 8 tactical pistol w/ mock suppressor--it rips faces off

This all works for us.

In the future please Quote the rules above and post the number that you are referencing below. IE mine are here.

4. Grenades if you make it that grenades disable a tank for 5 minutes, you effectively kill that tank. Not only that the number of people carrying grenades will sky rocket. Then they can just pin the tank down until someone can take it out with a laws or satchel. cap the number of laws at 2 per Tank. Im not sure how they determine laws numbers but that gives a pretty good dispersion to who can take out a tank.

6. rolling Infantry Units A. In no way fun except for the people inside them B. dangerous. Tanks Carry enough fire power in the fact they are not easily removed that they do not need to have a Van with 4-5 sets of double troubles sticking out of them.

9. There needs to be some incentive to leave the battle to re-arm for both Laws, and the Tanks.

Maybe I am missing something here but aren't tank rules for player safety not to make tanks harder to take out.I suggest tanker's bring along a squad of "crunchies" to act as a screen for them to keep the people with laws and demo charges away form them.

Its more to make a fair set of rules that the players and the Refs understand. Increased Safety is a byproduct of this.

The biggest safety violation has been people breaking the 20 foot rule in prior games. In the last game at bear claw some guy threw a satchel and missed about 3 feet short, he runs up and kicks it into the tank. Ref was standing there looking at him. Walker comes up and says no dice 10 foot rule. Ref says well you were not moving so tank is eliminated.

So some Rules are already in effect, Some rules are created and some rules will be modified.

I was the guy who kicked the demo charge under the tank at Iwo Jima. Tank walker gave as argument that you could not kick charge.I think that we should let the refs make the calls.Back to if tanker would work with ground pounders, instead of running out on their own,then I would not have been able to kick short thrown charge that was six to eight foot from tank.I do enjoy seeing tanks on field but think that tanks should work more on tactics than trying to make rules that make them harder to take out.