New Tanker rule book

[D.B. Daddy]

Originally Posted by R.J.

I was the guy who kicked the demo charge under the tank at Iwo Jima. Tank walker gave as argument that you could not kick charge.I think that we should let the refs make the calls.Back to if tanker would work with ground pounders, instead of running out on their own,then I would not have been able to kick short thrown charge that was six to eight foot from tank.I do enjoy seeing tanks on field but think that tanks should work more on tactics than trying to make rules that make them harder to take out.

Can't kick a charge thrown short because a satchel charge had a fuse. If it didn't make contact with it's target it exploded and did no damage. The only thing blown up would have been the leg that kicked it.

[Tradeguy]

Originally Posted by socoj2

In the future please Quote the rules above and post the number that you are referencing below. IE mine are here.

4. Grenades if you make it that grenades disable a tank for 5 minutes, you effectively kill that tank. Not only that the number of people carrying grenades will sky rocket. Then they can just pin the tank down until someone can take it out with a laws or satchel. cap the number of laws at 2 per Tank. Im not sure how they determine laws numbers but that gives a pretty good dispersion to who can take out a tank.

6. rolling Infantry Units A. In no way fun except for the people inside them B. dangerous. Tanks Carry enough fire power in the fact they are not easily removed that they do not need to have a Van with 4-5 sets of double troubles sticking out of them.

9. There needs to be some incentive to leave the battle to re-arm for both Laws, and the Tanks.

4. Not true. We've been hit by a lot of granades, and we've never been eliminated while disabled. During those 5 minutes we go into "kill everything" mode - it's a lot easier to take out players when the tank is not moving - and we kill every bunker within cannon range. I've said this before, but granades are also the average players only real weapon against a tank - you don't have to be a "demo" or have a special game prop (sachel). I also think it's an integral and historical part of the scenario game and I don't see any reason at all why it should be elmiinated. I also think it's safer than sachels because it's a lot easier to throw a granade than your average sachel - when we've been sachel'ed, it's usually been at extremely close range.

6. Huh? You really need to stop forumlating rules bases on what "you believe" a tank is or should be. There's no reason why cannons should "counter balance" with markers. Set a marker limit - but I see no reason for a cannon limit. I think 4 markers (so a firestormed dual a-5 counts as "2") seems reasonable.

9. I agree with that - but for completely different reasons - I think it's a safety issue. As the tank driver, I find it extremely annoying and distracting to have refs, walkers, and players constantly running up to the tank trying to hand us nerfs. There should be a clearly marked bin near the insertion where everyone can throw nerfs.

I didn't see it mentioned, but I'm really against the mounted vs non-mounted gun nonsense. I honestly think it's absurd to have "parts" of the tank taken out - it's all or nothing (and that's hard enough to ref). It might be true in real-life, but this is a paintball game.

This rule basically would require tanks to make their markers "mounted" in some way in order to make them invulnerable to fire. So, once again, we're dictating form and design - not function. All scenario games are not milsim (thank god). Your pb "tank" might be a gangster car, or an alien space ship, or even a prehistoric beast.

How guns and cannons are mounted and used can, and will, vary widely, and any "tank rules" should take account that all scenario games are essentiall fantasy simulations (even the milsim games).

Rich

[socoj2]

Originally Posted by R.J.

I was the guy who kicked the demo charge under the tank at Iwo Jima. Tank walker gave as argument that you could not kick charge.I think that we should let the refs make the calls.Back to if tanker would work with ground pounders, instead of running out on their own,then I would not have been able to kick short thrown charge that was six to eight foot from tank.I do enjoy seeing tanks on field but think that tanks should work more on tactics than trying to make rules that make them harder to take out.

you admittedly broke the safety limit. Forgo=et if the tank is on their own. You broke a clearly stated rule.

[MrWizard]

Originally Posted by Death By Daddy

Can't kick a charge thrown short because a satchel charge had a fuse. If it didn't make contact with it's target it exploded and did no damage. The only thing blown up would have been the leg that kicked it.

Heheh. RJ also tried to barrel tag my gunner many moons ago at a bearclaw game. He was very nice afterwards even though I think Pat may have bonus balled him in explaining the 10 ft rule. This is a perfect example of a role player not understanding the fine points and how it happens. No offense RJ as no fault of anyones here. Somes you just get thrust a card and have to do what you can from memory...


Tanks rules as we figure them out need a light version for non special players: 10ft or you're dead, grenades either do something or not, you cannot hurt a tank otherwise... and another set for specials (tankers and demo guys). Few refs get a lot of play with tanks and really hate getting caught around one. ouch. They need a refernece card of what is and is not the plan of play for that game. If the rules affect construction they need to be known, stable and followed. My first game for MPP ben said handheld guns (unmounted) could be eliminated by paint fire so I went fixed. Later I saw it was never or seldom enforced. I don't really care either way. Ignoring any paint on a tank seems the most sense unless using AT markers and targets (like dday). One less rule to remember.

[socoj2]

Originally Posted by Tradeguy

4. Not true. We've been hit by a lot of granades, and we've never been eliminated while disabled. During those 5 minutes we go into "kill everything" mode - it's a lot easier to take out players when the tank is not moving - and we kill every bunker within cannon range. I've said this before, but granades are also the average players only real weapon against a tank - you don't have to be a "demo" or have a special game prop (sachel). I also think it's an integral and historical part of the scenario game and I don't see any reason at all why it should be elmiinated. I also think it's safer than sachels because it's a lot easier to throw a granade than your average sachel - when we've been sachel'ed, it's usually been at extremely close range.

6. Huh? You really need to stop forumlating rules bases on what "you believe" a tank is or should be. There's no reason why cannons should "counter balance" with markers. Set a marker limit - but I see no reason for a cannon limit. I think 4 markers (so a firestormed dual a-5 counts as "2") seems reasonable.

9. I agree with that - but for completely different reasons - I think it's a safety issue. As the tank driver, I find it extremely annoying and distracting to have refs, walkers, and players constantly running up to the tank trying to hand us nerfs. There should be a clearly marked bin near the insertion where everyone can throw nerfs.

I didn't see it mentioned, but I'm really against the mounted vs non-mounted gun nonsense. I honestly think it's absurd to have "parts" of the tank taken out - it's all or nothing (and that's hard enough to ref). It might be true in real-life, but this is a paintball game.

This rule basically would require tanks to make their markers "mounted" in some way in order to make them invulnerable to fire. So, once again, we're dictating form and design - not function. All scenario games are not milsim (thank god). Your pb "tank" might be a gangster car, or an alien space ship, or even a prehistoric beast.

How guns and cannons are mounted and used can, and will, vary widely, and any "tank rules" should take account that all scenario games are essentiall fantasy simulations (even the milsim games).

4. I played a game this weekend, and we litterally locked a tank down for 20 minutes so, the demo guy could re-insert come back and gank it with a satchel charge, not all tanks have a 360 Turret up to. Or front cannons and 4 guys in the back with markers. What do your consider an acceptable limit then? 10 Cannons and 25 markers? You guys have a lot of people that play in your tank and 2 nerf cannons. How many markers do you effectively play with? 2 Nerf cannons is a lot. I can only thing of 1 tank off hand that has more then that and they have 3. I can think of a lot of Rolling infantry units that have 10+ markers in them though.

My goal is more a long the lines of a SAFE base set of rules individual Fields and producers would have the option of changing several of the rules like the tank marker limits if they so choose.

The mounted vs non-mounted was left out.

My personal opinions are left out of the rules i stated my opinion after the fact. Seriously there is the fun in Fighting someone who converts a Large Van into a MObile unit that litterly has 10-15 people in it? im guessing you havent come up against one of these as an infantry unit yet. Why the hate for a gun limit? 4 Markers and 2 Cannons, how many of the Current active tanks do you know that will be affected by this? i can think of hmmm maybe 2.

[Cookie]

Originally Posted by R.J.

I was the guy who kicked the demo charge under the tank at Iwo Jima. Tank walker gave as argument that you could not kick charge.

First of all you broke the 10/20 ft safety rule, second the rules stated that the satchel has to hit on or under the tank.

Originally Posted by R.J.

I think that we should let the refs make the calls.

Why do you think tanks are now required to supply there own walkers? Maybe because the producers do not have enough refs to provide a dedicated ref for each and every tank for the entire weekend? Solution to that is make them tank refs; the word ‘tank’ in front of the word ‘ref’ means that they have ref authority only for safety and tank related situations.

Originally Posted by R.J.

Back to if tanker would work with ground pounders, instead of running out on their own,then I would not have been able to kick short thrown charge that was six to eight foot from tank.

If you haven’t noticed most tanks ASK for ground support but don’t get it.

Originally Posted by R.J.

I do enjoy seeing tanks on field but think that tanks should work more on tactics than trying to make rules that make them harder to take out.

Okay, a special rule just for you; you can take out a tank if you can slap it with your hand and have received less that 200 hits.


As far as tanks having over-whelming fire power let me tell you about the game this past weekend at Blanding. The big, ugly, green tank (someone else referred to it as that) is owned by Team Gone Ballistic and is called DEMON. Yes, they have three DTs in the tank, one in each turret. During the game the Archon side complained about the tanks fire power to Billy wanting him to limit them; Billy’s response (as best as I can get) was “Tell your LAWS guys to do a better job”. Face it, DEMON is a BIG tank and should have been a fairly easy target to hit for any decent A/T player. However, what Gone Ballistic decided to do ON THEIR OWN for the final battle was to use ONLY ONE TURRET. They were not forced to by Billy, they were not asked to by Billy, they did it on their own.