Thread: scenario reffing : overshooting

draft

hey all - Im posting up here to help get the juices flowing about this section for the manual Im working on. Contributions and comments from the experienced ballers here have really helped and I appreciate the help.

Overshooting: I guess means shooting someone after they called them selves out, or raised their hand or marker to signal they are out. Calling for a paint check on yourself is not such a signal and does not make you neutral.

I have heard two breaks on a player from a single shooter is ok. 3 breaks on a player by a single shooter is considered overshooting.

reffing notes: in thick brush with dozens of players hammering away there are good odds that a player will walk out of the brush oozing with paint. You have two jobs here. first: when the player signals out, to yell to the shooters "let him out!", and two: look for the shooter who just seems like to send a few extra balls "just to be sure" or "because he is a wiper" or "because he won't call it". two wrongs don't make a right.

when you see a player likely to get hammered, move closer to the player so that you can jump in (literally) to help stop the player from taking unnecessary hits. use your body as a shield - especially for novice or elderly players.

What to do to an overshooter: if you think there was INTENT, this is unsportsmanlike conduct. I would suggest having the offender report to the game producer to apologize. (perhaps w/ a three strikes and you are out). If there was not intent, ask the shooter to apologize to the recipient (most decent players will do this anyway)

If the recipient gets mouthy try and calm him down. Some outrage here is understandable - but it can get out of hand if a ref doesn't step up and get a handle on the situation. call for backup if you see it escalating. Get between the players and dont let the angry player advance towards the other. A player getting overshot who thinks he was intentionally overshot will get angry. This is the leading cause of fights and verbal exchanges at a scenario game these days (followed by a player who wont call himself out).

I have heard stories of a player who complained about this 3 breaks rule - and field required him to use a rental 98 to learn trigger control.... lol, gotta love this one.

edit : Many times a player who complains of being overshot is also a player who habitually plays on after hit. Once the initial outburst dies down, try and keep an eye out for this player and observe his behavior while taking fire - and mouthy players really do deserve special attention from the reffing staff.

edit : Many fields and players play where they expect a ref to pull players once eliminated, and no one is eliminated until a ref pulls them. This is obviously impossible for a scenario game where hundreds of players are shooting across a hundred acres of buildings, brush, swamps and mountains.



comments welcome.

It is also advisable to check the number of shooters around the one or two "recipients". Most don't realize that if they are surrounded by 5 or more players and those guys let fly with several shots, (say 3 each), that's fifteen balls flying towards them. I've seen players come out smoking because of such situations. Ben is one producer who mentions this in his pre-game, as does Woody in ours. A player needs to be aware of his surroundings. Especially a player who decides to make a run at or through 5-10 opposing players. The barrage of hits that this player is inevitably going to get is NOT overshooting. Some may say it is not very smart, but to each his own. But in these situations, the Ref needs to be ready to intervene and remove the player to the regen area, kindly pointing out to the player that he was equally responsible for his situation.

Ref's need to really be on the look out for players that crawl. You will be over shot
almost everytime !! tring to get marker up or hand up for everyone to see is hard at
times ( depending on ground or age of player 8D ). Be rdy to help or stand to block
the inc. shots So the player may get up.

^ good stuff guys -- keep'um coming

What to do to an overshooter: if you think there was INTENT, this is unsportsmanlike conduct. I would suggest having the offender report to the game producer to apologize. (perhaps w/ a three strikes and you are out). If there was not intent, ask the shooter to apologize to the recipient (most decent players will do this anyway)

Well Done.

With the markers now-a-Days it can happen by mistake and a simple "Sorry" would be sufficient.

as long as i have been playing i have never over shot anyone intentionaly... i know i did it by mistake this past weekend to one player... he was layed on the ground and had a bunch of sticks between him and my angle on him... i fired like 5 shots... he didn't move, i fired 5 more... he didn't move... i let about 5 more go and finally he moved and it happened that those last 5 or so made their mark... i didn't mean to shoot him that much but he was dug in

and as a ref if i see some overshoot a player and they do not appoligize b/c is was not meant to happen i think the shooter meant to do it so i have the policy... PUNCH the card...

everyone who knows me, knows i am easy yo get along with... but don't do something stupid on my feild... i have no problems punching a players card and sending them off the feild... and over shooting will get u sent off the feild i a reffing faster than most things

Over shooting and bonus-balling the same thing here?

I see over shooting is putting a zipper on someone. Had it happen to me not long ago. got 7 shots from the same player from my leg all the way up my chest and the last one on my mask...6 Broke...I think the guy got nervous when saw me casue I startled him so I dont really blame him to much. He apologized and it was cool. Still hurt pretty bad. I think that there are other times when to much is to much. Markers that drive tacks with thier barrel kits on top of 18 bps could casue a problem for over shooting be a problem. To solve that the ref needs to be mature enough to know when a person is shooting to many times at one particular person. Ref could advise the player to send 3 or four at a time and let off and then if he misses or none breaks send three or four more. The ref should communicate that player number or id to all other refs to keep an eye on him. If player continues punch card. if still continues send them to the parking lot...

Bonus Balling could be considered when a player intentionally shoots another player when they know that they are out. Just to let them know they are there. I have seen players put one on the back of a player leaving a field just to get a reaction. If it is intentional go ahead and just yank then from the game and send them home.

This issue is one that can cause a lot of controversy. I'm not trying to start another heated debate. But I guess I think someone needs to toss out the obvious for consideration.

Before this devolves into a heated debate on the pros and cons of high rate of fire markers, lets remember that our purpose is a reffing manual and we need to keep this in the scope of what we should put in it. (And I know not all of what I wrote below will make it to the manual) But I think it would be fair to include a lot of it in the context of a producer, field owner and refs responsibility and the importance of taking it seriously.



Paintballs do smart when they hit and there's nothing I've seen that can get tempers flaring faster than being overshot. Below is my top five reasons why a player might get angry enough to throw a punch while playing Paintball:

1. Getting overshot.
2. Getting bonusballed.
3. Getting overshot.
4. Getting bonusballed.
5. All of the above.

My experience bares this out. By far, the number one reason - by at least an order of magnitude - people blow their cool in paintball is getting overshot in some form. No other reason comes even close.

At the same time, faster rates of fire are making overshooting more and more common. A lot of players have the attitude that it's part of the game and to an extent that is true. But I've seen even people normally even-tempered to get irate after getting hit 4 or 5 times with a paintball. So being part of the game is only true to an extent.

Just because overshooting can't be entirely prevented, that doesn't mean that reasonable rules should not be put in place to limit it as much as is practical.

But the flip side to the "part of the game" philosophy is that younger players and new players are often timid and getting overshot could mean the last time that player plays. Also the risk that someone overshot might lash out violently and really hurt someone. Big scenarios are one place where overshooting is most likely to be a problem just because of the sheer numbers of players on the field. Add to that the possibility of a law suit. A jury hearing that a plaintiff was hit with 10 paintballs at the time of the injury is probably going to be very sympathetic to said plaintiff and tack on a couple zeros on that award. That makes insurance carriers nervous. Nervous carriers raise rates. Higher insurance rates means higher costs to play and fewer venues to play in. Therefore, this is an issue that does need to be proactively controlled.

Just imaging a jury deciding a case where a guy gets overshot 15 time and punches a guy over it. The guy punched sues the puncher and the paintball field for creating an unsafe environment that contributied to having to have his jaws wired shut and permanent damage to his chiseled jaw and pearly-whites. Cha-Ching!

Also an issue is that people who just dropped $1500 on their brand new UltraTech Electronic marker tend to want to use them when they play. Unfortunately, some players will buy technology intended for professional and semi-professional speedball and bring it out to a recball field to play against first time players with rentals. Then they act insulted if you suggest they might be overarmed for the environment. They'll sit there and talk about how much trigger control they have while the 13 year old female first time player walks off the field with 6 breaks on her and heads straight to the parking lot.

Even scarier for me is when I see the 12 year old boy with the UltraTech his dad bought him for Christmas. You just know he's gonna cause you grief. This is a problem because if you try and tell him he can't use his Daddilac marker, he's going to point to the old timer packing the same heat and ask why the old timer can use his and he can't. Good question.

But, sadly, at least for a while, cost was a limiting factor. At $1000 or better, the UltraTechs were out of the price range for 99% of the players. This kept it under control. But now, the Robo-Hosers are made in Taiwan and sell for less than $250 each. Now everyone can pack a firehose out on the paintball field.

Gentlemen, this is an issue that needs to be addressed before it gets way out of hand and everyone is hurt by it. The fact is, the faster the marker shoots, the more balls in the air at any given time, the more chance of an overshoot. Therefore, this is an issue that handling begins before the game starts. Some producers are introducing rate of fire restrictions on scenario games. Others are enforcing a 3 ball max hit rule. I've also heard of ramping and automatic fire boards being banned from scenario games. The point is that field owners and producers are recognizing the potential problems here and while no standard has been established yet, it's probably only a matter of time. Dealing with this decisively on the field is the only way to go for the health of the game of paintball.

The moral of my story is that if you're a producer or field owner, consider some strong rules to limit overshooting. If you're a ref, enforce those rules strictly, but fairly.



So there's my speech. Debate on, but with respect. I intend to remain mute on this subject for the remained of this project.

I'm not sure where it fits in, but I've seen...recently...another way that unintentional overshooting/bonus-balling happens due to the inaction of an eliminated player. When I've seen this, more often than not it is a lessor experience player who is distracted by the size of the fight around them.

Player A shoots Player B out. It's a clean shoot, B calls out no issues, but drags his feet in getting out of the immediate firefight. Player A transitions to his next target which is on the far side of Player B's exit line and B inadvertently takes additional hits. B thinks that A is intentionally bonus-balling him and it's simply not the case.

Players should recognize that scenario ball is not a 1v1 game. More often than not it's 5+ v 5+ , or more, and crossfire happens. The old adage, "...friendly fire isn't and incoming fire has the right of way..." applies. Pre-game briefs should emphasize to players that once eliminated the paint doesn't simply stop flying. Getting out of the firefight may not be the most direct route back to the insertion point. Players should call out, assess the situation and leave the area ASAP. Educating players is half the fight. (pun intended) It's been touched on already, but Refs should pay close attention to the number of combatants in a firefight when trying to determine if any unsportsmanlike conduct has occurred.

I had that happen this weekend, shot at a player..no call. Shot again..no call, said "hit player?"...nothing. Laid a line down the half a body I could still see sticking out and finaly a hand went up. I waved and the player walked slowly down the incline. Meanwhile two more down the incline shot at me so I started return fire and the player dragged himself into the fire. He yelled and I apologized best I could and waited for him to clear the way and shot one of the two out. If he had acknowledged the first hits it could have been avoided, or if he had scurried out then it would have been no contesting.
I also had a ref tell me to slow it down when I was using the SL74 near the castle...he was correct, I laid into it a bit long and he called me on it. I could have overshot if the opponent would have been an unexperienced player and moved out into the firefight instead of snapping quite well I might add and giving me a good rally. I then shot in 3-4 ball bursts until finaly catching him popping out.
I left the field and went back to pumping, that way no overshooting from me.
Maybe we should do a pump only scenario for players with more than 3-5 years experience? Let the others shoot whatever and show them how marker speed can be fun, but it does not make you invincible.