Thread: Scenario Reffing : Spies

Scenario Reffing : Spies : how to deal with them
By Steers - Team Section8
1.21.2007

One of the greatest tragedies in scenario paintball might be when a player has created a masterpiece in which he/she is walking among the enemy and planning to disrupt and/or eliminate important targets and the referee rats them out.

Spies are a unique aspect of the game and in many ways helps the referees understand just what one player is capable of doing. Being a spy doesn’t necessarily mean that you are allowed to wear enemy tape and hold an enemy card. In the game, especially night, one player can wreak havoc with mission teams and base security and so much depends on the cooperation and trust with refs.

Things to remember at a scenario with or without spies:

1. As the ref, you have been placed higher than the player, that is, to judge and monitor. You are expected to be friendly but mainly to be professional. This entails you not allowing any player to hear your radio chatter or giving them hints that would lead to points being taken or given on any one side. Have you ever heard of a judge telling a contestant how to win? Of course not, that is cheating and so is this.

2. At times, it is necessary for you to act quickly. When the player approaches a ref and informs him of his/her intentions, the ref must take great care in what he/she does at that point. Talking on radios risks a new ref from shooting his mouth off and not paying attention could cause the plan to fail. For example: when a player intends to barrel tag several players by slowly working up a line, as the ref, you must work quickly and diligently by removing dead players from the line. In most cases, the player will say something to compromise the player and the plan will fail.

3. Plain and simple, if you rat out a player because you are a base ref or referee working closely with any one side, you have cheated and cannot handle the responsibility that you have been given. I personally believe that points should be awarded in these instances. If the player is doing an effective job, then let him/her do it and later congratulate them for their work. If the enemy player is ignorant, then that is their down fall and you as the ref MUST let them learn the lesson. Unless they ask about the rules, you are not to instruct in the process of their demise.

Obviously, if you hear of a player getting ready to do something sneaky, be quiet about it and do not spread the word. The only thing that player needs is for you to act at the opportune moment and allow him/her to do what they came to do. In most cases, you are grim reaper and it is your job to silence players and get them out before the others know what it going on. In real life, if the spy was cutting throats one by one, could any of his victims scream out? No, so be sure to silence them.

Damn steers, nice work... a bit of jester wordsmithing and this one is done.

I dropped a copy of this on carolinapaintballers and paintballcharleston for some feedback and contribution..

"A good spy knows which refs to stay away from. If the staff sucks, don't even bother being a spy."


lol -- this thread is pretty hot over on mcb
Scenario Reffing : Spies : how to deal with them - mcarterbrown.com

Mstrtal : "If a player comes up to you at night with a question or concern please do NOT shine your flashlight on them. Whether they are in or out becomes mote at this point. You shine a lite on them and you give their position away to every single player in line of site."

Mr. Furious : "Dead men don't talk"..."But the player does have the right to yell "hit" or "out" at the top of his lungs, once he is out."

Traakon: "There is a reason why being a good scenario spy is difficult, just as in real life, everyone suspects and the smallest flaw turns you out and that flaw should be the players not the officials."

Originally Posted by thumper

Mstrtal : "If a player comes up to you at night with a question or concern please do NOT shine your flashlight on them. Whether they are in or out becomes mote at this point. You shine a lite on them and you give their position away to every single player in line of site."

I just want to expand on this a bit. As a ref, during night games I'd often be a mission ref. Something I would do when I was on a mission, is tuck my chem light into my shirt hiding it from view. Nothing will attract players like a ref just sitting in some strange place for no apparent reason. I think the refs should try to treat the players as they would like to be treated. Radio turned down, no noise, limited lights...
If a firefight started I'd pull the Chem light out so folks could see I was a ref...
Thump I know this isn't the perfect thread for this post, feel free to move it...
please excuse any glaring grammer errors as I'm about 3 min from bed..

Originally Posted by SCBrian

..Thump I know this isn't the perfect thread for this post, feel free to move it...

Hell no -- excellent post.

Scenario Reffing : Spies : how to deal with them
By Steers - Team Section8 with contributions as noted.
1.21.2007

One of the greatest tragedies in scenario paintball might be when a player has created a masterpiece in which he/she is walking among the enemy and planning to disrupt and/or eliminate important targets and the referee rats them out.

Spies are a unique aspect of the game and in many ways helps the referees understand just what one player is capable of doing. Being a spy doesn’t necessarily mean that you are allowed to wear enemy tape and hold an enemy card. In the game, especially night, one player can wreak havoc with mission teams and base security and so much depends on the cooperation and trust with refs.

Things to remember at a scenario with or without spies:

1. As the ref, you have been placed higher than the player, that is, to judge and monitor. You are expected to be friendly but mainly to be professional. This entails you not allowing any player to hear your radio chatter or giving them hints that would lead to points being taken or given on any one side. Have you ever heard of a judge telling a contestant how to win? Of course not, that is cheating and so is this.

2. At times, it is necessary for you to act quickly. When the player approaches a ref and informs him of his/her intentions, the ref must take great care in what he/she does at that point. Talking on radios risks a new ref from shooting his mouth off and not paying attention could cause the plan to fail. For example: when a player intends to barrel tag several players by slowly working up a line, as the ref, you must work quickly and diligently by removing dead players from the line. In most cases, the player will say something to compromise the player and the plan will fail.

** Dead men don't talk **

3. Plain and simple, if you rat out a player because you are a base ref or referee working closely with any one side, you have cheated and cannot handle the responsibility that you have been given. If the player is doing an effective job, then let him/her do it and later congratulate them for their work. If the enemy player is ignorant, then that is their down fall and you as the ref MUST let them learn the lesson. Unless they ask about the rules, you are not to instruct in the process of their demise.

Obviously, if you hear of a player getting ready to do something sneaky, be cool about it and do not let on. The only thing that spy needs is for you to act at the opportune moment and allow him/her to do what they came to do. In most cases, you are grim reaper and it is your job to silence players and get them out before the others know what it going on. In real life, if the spy was cutting throats one by one, could any of his victims scream out? No, so be sure to silence them.

...Contributions follow...

Brian Odgers adds: "As a ref, during night games I'd often be a mission ref. Something I would do when I was on a mission, is tuck my chem light into my shirt hiding it from view. Nothing will attract players like a ref just sitting in some strange place for no apparent reason. I think the refs should try to treat the players as they would like to be treated. Radio turned down, no noise, limited lights... If a firefight started I'd pull the Chem light out so folks could see I was a ref..."

Traakon adds: "There is a reason why being a good scenario spy is difficult, just as in real life, everyone suspects and the smallest flaw turns you out and that flaw should be the players not the officials."

Mstrtal adds : "If a player comes up to you at night with a question or concern please do NOT shine your flashlight on them. Whether they are in or out becomes mote at this point. You shine a lite on them and you give their position away to every single player in line of site."

Grendel adds : "It is hard many times to make the necessary calls when involving "spies" in the game. It is the job of the Referees to make good sound judgement to ensure the safe, unbiased and unobtrusive calls are made. If it is between those three things when making a call always default to make the safety call over the other two. Next make sure your call is unbiased to the outcome of the game and third make your calls fairly and firmly but if you can keep from giving the "spy" away you should. Reffing is not always easy and sometime can be very frustrating but if you know the rules [all of the rules for the game] and you make your calls with some "common sense" it makes it a lot easier."

Grendel adds : "Eliminated players have to indicate they are out, that is undebatable. No one says you have to scream it though. You have to get that gun up, get out of cover, get that blocking device on, head off the field and you can call yourself out but I've never been anywhere where it is the rules you have to yell "I'm out" or "eliminated Player"...etc. What I've seen in the rules is if you SAY those things you are indicating you are out. If you are eliminated by someone beinging sneak, whether it is a spy or not, you have to indicate you are eliminated and get off the field but try to give they player who work so hard some courtesy of walking off without intentionally giving them away."

MCB poster adds : "A good spy knows which refs to stay away from. If the staff sucks, don't even bother being a spy."

Thumper adds :
>>Examples of spy-like tricks to look for:

*** A guy delivering a pizza to a base ref for example - who happens to be an active enemy player with all the tapes showing.. pizza gets dropped near base and kablooy.. sounds like good clever stuff to me.

*** A guy with a disposable camera taking pics behind enemy lines - who happens to be an active enemy player with all the tapes showing.... sounds like good clever stuff to me.

*** A guy is invited in at night by your base security staff because your head of security overheard a radio transmission by the base ref stating he was on your side... (cautiously look signs that he is eliminated, or an active player i.e, visible face tape or arm band tape, visible player card -- refer to official game rules - do not give away the player when making this determination)

*** A guy complaining he losts his car keys and wants to look in your base...lol - who happens to be an active enemy player with all the tapes showing.... sounds like good clever stuff to me.

*** A spy wants to be non-threatening. Acting non-threatening isnt cheating - its part of the role the spy must play.

*** Once you signal out in anyway - you are out - plug it, hold it up and get off the field, if not thats a dead mans walk.. (see dead official dead mans walk rules)

*** If the spy has a satchel charge and uses it - it's use must comply w/ satchel charge rules (i.e., possibly demo player card, card in satchel -- see official gam
e rules)

apparently someone @ PBC didnt like this topic...

Scenario Reffing : Spies : how to deal with them - Paintball Charleston

Originally Posted by DMmasta

apparently someone @ PBC didnt like this topic...

Scenario Reffing : Spies : how to deal with them - Paintball Charleston

im on it (does he always whine like that?)